Our latest podcast covers something that doesn’t get talked about very often—the body image struggles of men. In this episode, Sawyer & Giacomo emphasize community’s role in recovery and share coaching strategies focusing on mental health and personalized fitness.
📢 Highlights from this episode:
- The importance of self-care and energy management around social events
- Navigating challenges as a vegan through the holidays
- How familial pressure can shape body image
- The importance of community and support in overcoming challenges
👉 Tune in for an honest, relatable chat that goes beyond the highlight reels and into the heart of what it means to connect authentically.
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🔎 Related Phrases:
Overcoming body image struggles, navigating family pressure in fitness, bodybuilding and eating disorders, the power of community, coaching for mental health and fitness, personalizing fitness journeys, embracing vulnerability in fitness, imposter syndrome in the fitness world, veganism and mental health recovery, social media’s impact on body image
Transcript:
Sawyer:
Welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. I’m Sawyer.
Giacomo:
And I’m Giacomo.
Sawyer:
And welcome to episode 198.
Giacomo:
There we go. This is the first time you and I are recording together, and I’m super curious to hear how this conversation is going to go. Little nervous, not going to lie, but also excited. I’m nervous about the context of what we’re talking about. But before we get into all of it, I want to thank all the listeners here for tuning in.
It’s because of you that we have this podcast, and I hope that you’ll find this episode useful. Catch me up to speed. Sawyer. We haven’t hung out in a while. What have you been. I know you said you’re in Florida right Now, in Port St. Lucie. What’s going on?
Sawyer:
Yeah, we’re just visiting a friend from high school, actually. And then because Mia and I went to high school together. Um, and. And then we’re gonna head back to Arizona for the holidays. So it’s gonna be. It might be a little bit of a mad dash by the time we leave here to get back home, but it’s gonna be fine. We’ll be all right.
Giacomo:
I was at a mechanic all day yesterday making sure Danny’s car is working. Cause she’s headed out to Athena’s Friendsgiving on Friday. And I’m choosing to stay home. Not cause I don’t want to be there, but for the first time in a long time, I’m seeing myself. I need to protect my energy. It’s. There’s been so much traveling this year. I know.
Sawyer:
Yeah, that’s cool. I know you. You, like, go hard. You do a lot of stuff in a short amount of time. And I’m glad that you’re just thinking, okay, can I keep going like this? And just being like, maybe I need to hold back a little bit. I think that’s. That’s very smart of you. So, yeah, props to you for that, man.
Giacomo:
Yeah, for sure. I have some fomo. I do want to be at that. Friends giving.
Sawyer:
Yeah, me too.
Giacomo:
And Danny’s the typically the one where I have to push her. And I’m like, come on, let’s go, let’s do things. And she’s like, yeah, but it’s gonna. I’ll love it, but I’m just gonna drain my energy. So it’s kind of weird that it’s the opposite thing that’s happening right now.
Sawyer:
Yeah, you guys switched. No, that makes sense. I mean, you gotta check in with yourself and see where you’re at and then act accordingly. Right. So I’m glad that you’re just like, you know what? I gotta take care of me right now. I think that’s smart. And I think anybody who cares about you will understand, like, that’s a legit reason to skip something, you know? So.
Giacomo:
What did you wind up doing for Thanksgiving? Did you celebrate?
Sawyer:
I didn’t do anything. I just. So Mia was back home for a wedding, and so it was just me and Archer in the van. And I was just like, oh, well, I just started driving towards Florida where she was going to fly back into. And so I don’t know, I probably. I think I made nachos. That was like the big thing. But other than that, I didn’t really do anything. You guys had, like, a pretty cool get together at your place, right?
Giacomo:
Yes. Holidays are difficult in general, and Thanksgiving is the hardest holiday of the year for vegans.
Sawyer:
You know, that’s like, why I’m like, I’m just not going to try to be anywhere because everywhere I go, like, I don’t want to see dead animals, really. So that’s just me.
Giacomo:
No, it’s true. My family still tries to guilt me because it’s a holiday in tradition, and they don’t quite understand what it feels like for a vegan to have a dead carcass on the table and why it’s important to hold the line and be like, I. I just cannot today. It’s not the day. So we started doing vegan Thanksgivings only the last five or seven years. And this particular one was nice. We got to host. We had decent. We had good friends at the table, good family. It was nice.
Sawyer:
That’s cool, man. I’m glad you guys had a good time. I wish I could have been there, but again, I’m like, far away now. But you guys have a really, really wonderful home and you guys make good food, so would have been cool, but maybe another year we’ll do a thing. It’d be fun.
Giacomo:
Yeah. We’ll have to get together more in person, but in the meanwhile, we have the chance to get into some stuff today. And whose idea? I don’t think it really matters whose idea this was, but when I learned that you struggled a lot with body image, and then you were like. And I was talking to Ben, I was like, Because Ben was just getting off of his competition.
I’m like, let me. Let me let some of this out for him. Like, dude, you’re not the only after competition. And then you were like, dude, you Want to get into it? I’m like, okay, so, yeah, there’s something.
Sawyer:
When you started talking about it, I was like, man, you’ve got some stuff. And I never heard it on any of your content. So I was like, okay, I don’t know if you’ve even talked. Talked about it. So, you know, I was seeing some parallels between what we had gone through. But also, I don’t think you had vocalized it that much.
So I think people might be interested to hear, especially knowing you for a long time, you’ve been in this space for a long time, what your story is like when it comes to the body image stuff. And so I was curious too, you know, but yeah, I think that’d be a cool thing to get into.
Giacomo:
Have you shared your story a lot on Instagram?
Sawyer:
I. I feel like I have, but I bet people probably don’t know that much. I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve gone into that many specifics. I do talk about body image a lot, and I think people could probably tell I’ve had struggle with it. But I don’t think you can ever talk about stuff that’s important like that enough. Because I think a lot of times people just see what you’ve posted lately and they don’t really know all of your backstory.
So I think it’s a good time, good thing to periodically revisit. Like, hey, I’ve struggled with stuff like this too, and this is how I stay on top of it. So I have talked about it before, but not really lately, to be honest. I think I talked about it last, like when I did a podcast with Ben, you know, maybe even a year or more ago. So.
Giacomo:
Okay, well, I’m all ears. I have talked a little bit about this stuff, but I’m more. I’m usually in the position where I’m trying to help others with body image and creating solutions. So I really haven’t told my story, honestly, but I’m curious to hear yours and obviously more than happy to tell you, like, where this stuff started with me and why.
Sawyer:
Yeah, I mean, please get it going, because I think that’s a good place to start, is at the beginning when. And I. I think it can be helpful and cathartic for people when we recount our stories and where we think it came from. Like, where do we think that the. The habit started and the mindset started that kind of paved the way for all this stuff that came later that sometimes people think, like, started then, but I think it’s I think it’s a lot more gradual than that a lot of times,
but we don’t realize where it started. So I’m curious where you think your kind of body image struggles actually originated, like, probably in your childhood or whatever.
Giacomo:
Oh, you want to start with me? Okay, sure. Why not?
Sawyer:
Yeah.
Giacomo:
Been doing this long enough. There’s no reason to be embarrassed. And if it helps someone for. To hear, like, what I’ve been through, then by all means. Right?
Sawyer:
Yeah. So did you grow up like a skinny kid or did you have. What was. What would you think it was that, like, triggered stuff that was like, oh, my body’s not good, or whatever you started to feel like?
Giacomo:
Well, I usually talk about the stuff on the surface that made me want to improve, whether it was bullying, whether it was wanting to make a team and be a better athlete, whether it was wanting to have confidence in myself. That’s the stuff that I generally talk about.
And then I talk about the actual issues and the struggles when it comes to how I was able to get the body that I wanted, maintain it, and not let it. Let the process own me. Right. That’s what I usually go for when it comes to my narrative around how.
Sawyer:
You kind of usually, like, glaze over the beginning, you talk about a little bit about what you went through, and then you talk about. You probably emphasize the solutions because you want to get to, like, helping people. And, like, I totally get that. But I really want to know, like, what do you think it was like, that planted the seed or make you struggle a little bit? What planted the seed for you?
That was like, you know, I need. I have to change something. I’m not good or whatever. Like, physically, you just felt like not. And it. I mean, I know you’ve talked about bullying a little bit, but, like, what was that like? And did that. Do you think that was, like, the big thing that, like, set you down the path, or was there multiple things?
Giacomo:
There’s much deeper roots here. My family is fat phobic, and have a fear of not looking a certain way. They’re very much so into the way that they look.
Sawyer:
Okay.
Giacomo:
And because they were petrified at the idea of being. Well, I saw my dad’s family very obsessed with their looks. Very obsessed with their looks. They want to look a certain way.
Sawyer:
Right.
Giacomo:
They want. They want all that. My mother’s side of the family struggled greatly with their eating habits and maintaining their weight. So on one side, I have a fam. A family that was obsessed with their looks and shamed us into and also encouraged us into.
I mean, think about like a 14 year old growing 10 inches. You know, I’m a teenage boy and they’re like talking about the stretch marks on my hip that, oh, those stretch marks will go away if you’re lucky because you grew. But like deep down inside.
Sawyer:
Yeah.
Giacomo:
Intentionally shaming me without realizing it because they were worried because I was kind of a. I was a chubby boy. Wanted me to grow up to be this tall, young, lean.
Sawyer:
Yeah, man.
Giacomo:
And you see it like all the, all the young men in my father’s family look that way. Right. I mean, it’s effortless. They don’t think about it. That’s the way they’re being parented. That’s the way they’re being encouraged. My sister screaming hard in that direction. I struggled with it. I was mama’s boy and I stuck close to my mom and I was the first child. And I don’t think they quite got it right as far as what they were trying to mold and do with. Also, like sticking close to my mom.
My mom was very. She, very. And she still struggles less part. My mom struggled with her. Her body weight and eating all of her life up and down, up and down. And I was close to her and she cared for me. So I think I took on a lot of that. Right. And then as I. And. But you know, the stuff that I led with Sawyer, that’s the stuff that I typically talk about. And yeah, stuff is usually just stuff that I have a hard time talking about. Like one, you don’t want to bring your family into things.
Sawyer:
No, yeah, I get it. It’s not like they’re bad people. They just have like a bias towards like, attractive people and they’re like, oh, his life is going to be so much better and we’re going to push him in this way. And. And they don’t think like, oh, we’re going to make his life a living hell. They just think, oh, we’re going to make his life better by putting some pressure on him in this way.
You know, meanwhile, you’re just like, why. Why is everybody so obsessed with this like, being lean and tall thing? Like, this is weird. And you know, I totally get what you’re saying, man. That’s. That’s rough to be in that environment where you feel like, pressure to be a certain way if it’s funny. Because if they didn’t say anything, you might actually have been better off of like, just like genetically you’re going to get tall anyway and you’re going to be lean because you,
like, care about your health. But when they put all this pressure on it, it just turns it into this like, weird shame little creature inside you. It’s weird, huh? So I guess I’ll go into my family stuff. I never. I didn’t really feel pressured by my family to look a certain way, although my grandfather was always. They always talked about how attractive he is and stuff.
And then, yeah, I guess attractiveness was talked about a lot. And I, I always wanted to be attractive. I remember that. I. I remember being a kid, like, from, from like preschool. I would, like, read to girls in the corner. Like, I was, I was super into love like from day one, man. And I was a mama’s boy too, actually. Which is kind of cool that we had that connection.
Still am in a lot of ways, but. But yeah, I was like, super into love and like, and being appealing to women. It’s a. Girls at that age. And I just remember feeling like I didn’t really have. There was a certain point, I guess, around puberty where I just felt like I didn’t have the body to like, you know, allure. Like the same way I want. I, like, wanted girls to approach me.
And like, that still doesn’t happen. Like, the funny thing is, like, is women just don’t typically. They’re not typically the ones that approach. And also the best relationships I’ve ever had have come out of friendships anyway. So the whole like, dating, courting thing never really felt right to me anyway. But I just remember feeling like wanting female attention was like, what started it, I think for me. So I think you’re so. It sounds like to me your, your family pressure was
what started the body image stuff for you. You were like, okay, maybe I need to push myself in this way, or why am I getting pressured this way? And I felt like internally I wanted to be that way, but because I saw like, movies and how girls reacted to like athletic dudes or whatever, and then I was like, I want to be that, you know, So I kind of put it on myself, I think. But either way, kind of the same effect is just that we felt like we wanted to be different than we were.
Giacomo:
Yeah, we had two of quite different paths, obviously, puberty, girls liking me. There’s lots of parallels there, but their roots here are clearly a little different to me based on what I’m hearing you say.
Sawyer:
Yeah, Yeah. I think, I think at some point in everybody’s journey or especially people who, who identify with having body image issues, we simplify things in our heads. To think, okay, this equals that. So, like, good body or muscle and lean body equals happiness somehow. Like, you’re suffering with something and you’ve now associated it with your body, and you think, oh, man, if I get rid of this, I will never be anxious about this ever again.
Or I will. You know what I mean? And so you just channel all your energy, it feels like, into that. And I think that’s how it starts. You just start obsessing over this thing because you think that if you solve this one problem, like, every. Everything else in life is going to be, like, easy, I think, just because the stress has become at that point, so, like, I don’t know, overwhelming. But yeah, I’m curious. So, like, I know I’m kind of guiding this conversation, but I’m always.
I’m really curious about your story. So when. When you realized, okay, like, I have this family pressure to look a certain way, and they’re kind of on my back all the time. Or at least it just like. It just feels like that even if they’re. It’s just offhanded comments and stuff. When did you feel like you started changing your behavior? And. And what did that behavior look like? And how did. How bad did it get? And it, like. You know what I mean? Like, when did it get there?
Giacomo:
I think in. I think as a teenager, it didn’t really affect me much.
Sawyer:
Okay.
Giacomo:
Puberty, staying active, being rewarded for being active and being able to a certain way. I started dabble a little bit in being able to control my body. Oh. I wanted to fit into these pants. I wanted to have this amount of muscle. I wanted to be confident, looking a certain way. But I don’t think it really started to impact me negatively, like, cripple me then. Yeah, that. The climax of that happened in my early 20s when I started to the next level. Mm.
Sawyer:
And what do you mean by the next level? So what do you think, tra, first of all, what do you think triggered it? Like, once you hit your early 20s, like, what made it worse?
Giacomo:
It was my first bodybuilding competition.
Sawyer:
Oh, okay.
Giacomo:
I. I kept taking it further and further and further. Like, I do everything. And I was like, well, you know, I said to myself, I can help other people. But then I got suckered into this idea of competing as a bodybuilder. I was like, well, let’s do that thing. I took it real far, and I had no idea what I was getting into. I didn’t hire a coach. I went for it, and I just couldn’t handle it.
After the Fact, I was like, wow, I get to look like this and now what do I do? And it just, I totally wrecked me. I. I felt a lack of control, what I could do with my body. I started hating myself because I was no longer bodybuilder lean. I had a bunch of weight on me and I didn’t like the way I looked. I didn’t like the way I felt. And I was like, well, if I can’t have muscle and be fit, I’m just going to lose my muscle.
And I just started dieting. I just started dieting. I just started losing weight and losing weight and losing weight. I got to a place where I was like, straight up, I had a full blown eating disorder, psychotic break, where I was in a hospital for a couple of weeks.
Sawyer:
Wow.
Giacomo:
And they were basically nursing me back to a place where my body was going to be stable because I was obsessed with this idea. And at this point it was a sickness. It was no longer me trying to be like, well, I could be a skinny guy. I’m happy. I couldn’t be a muscular guy and not be, and not be on the heavier side in an
uncomfortable body for me. Right. So I’m gonna be a skinny guy. But you. I wound up crossing a line from being skinny to being sick. And that’s, and that’s when it started to get ugly.
Sawyer:
Yeah. I think that’s what’s scary is when, especially when you’re too young to realize what you’re doing. You’re. You’ve established a formula and you’re like, oh, leanness equals happiness. Like I was saying, like, you’re like, okay, this equals that, you know, and you, and you like, and you have these tools to make it happen. And at that point you’re just not responsible enough to use them well because you’re like, not thinking about the whole picture.
You’re literally just one dimensionally, like looking at like, yeah, if I do this, I will get leaner. And that means happiness. Right. Or that means solving my problem of like not liking the body fat. And that’s scary place to be because yeah, there’s no, like, you could, you could go to. Yeah. Those lengths and nobody can really stop you even if they’re concerned that you.
A lot of people will be like, not really understand the lingo or the, the, the things you’re going through. And so you feel very like misunderstood by people. Even the people that are telling you like, hey, you’re going a little crazy with this. I remember that was, that was about the age that Mine kind of peaked too, was, was early 20s in college.
And it’s funny because I, I, yeah, there was one time where I was like getting too lean and I was like, like it was funny, like I just lost muscle and I didn’t actually get like shredded like I was hoping to and I was, but I was eating like 1800 calories and you know, as a 23 year old it was like not. And I was trying to do this like one meal a day or I was trying to do like intermittent fasting and like all this stuff that I was learning about.
And I remember getting like too small, but also not that lean. So it was just like this isn’t working. And then I would often like balance, you know, between poles. Cuz it was always like about getting big for me but also staying lean. So I was like kind of always concerned about one or the other thing and sometimes it would change within a span of like a week or two even.
Or like sometimes I feel like even in the same day where I would be around people that were leaner and I was like, oh my God, I gotta get leaner. Or I’d go at the gym, I’d go to the gym with all the people that were lifting big weights and like, you know, wearing clothes and we weren’t looking at abs and stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta get bigger.
And so it was constantly this comparing thing because I had no confidence, you know, and so I was constantly just like trying to chase the, just like the bodybuilder image or whatever. And it was funny to me is that I didn’t actually start out wanting to look like a bodybuilder. It was actually that I wanted to look like an athlete. Like I wanted to look like a basketball player or something, or like a model or whatever, where they had like rounded shoulders and lean, you know, torso
and whatever. And then it felt like through like social media or whatever it was that I was just like, no, bigger is better and leaner is better. And so where I started out with expectations or goals that were like down here, ended up with ones that were like I was comparing myself to steroid users or users at a certain point, man. And so when you’re comparing yourself to steroid users as a natural and as a kid, you know, like 20 years old or whatever, you end up feeling like, what am I
doing wrong? And like everything you do, it feels like a mistake and you feel like you cannot figure it out. And so you’re constantly doing more and more extreme stuff either direction or whatever. And. Yeah, and then you end up kind of losing yourself in it because you’re constantly just trying to figure out what. What am I doing wrong? How could I be doing this better?
You’re looking up information. You’re kind of falling prey to, like, marketing gimmicks and people who aren’t actually well versed in the science of, like, body composition change. They’re just kind of people who are taking advantage of the fact that you’re insecure and you’re looking for answers. So, yeah, I think all of that is to say that, yeah, that.
That was a really tough time in my life because I was constantly changing. Like, I was. I have notebooks full of, like, scribbled notes and, like, changes in protocols, and, like, I’m going to eat this much protein, and then I’m going to, you know, fast for this long, and I’m going to train this many times a week. I was burning out, man. Like, I was doing way too much.
And I feel like that time in my life, looking back on it now, taught me, like, just how neurotic people can be and, like, how. How much they can actually do. And so a lot of times when people assume, like, coaching is just, like, pushing people, it’s always pushing me to be better. It’s always pushing me, maybe, but not in the way that they think. Sometimes. Sometimes they’re so neurotic and they do so much like that that I have to, like, put the reins on a little bit.
And it feels good to be able to do that, because that was what helped me. And I know we’re getting ahead of ourselves here a little bit, but I love it. I do like talking about where it started to turn around, and I start. I don’t know, I feel like I learned something new every time I revisit how it changed. But do you feel like we fully explored the problem stuff, or do you feel like you want to talk more about how it manifested and what the darkest days looked like?
Giacomo:
Did you have any darker days outside of the struggles that you had with wanting to look a certain way and eating all that? You feel like you pretty much covered that.
Sawyer:
I. I’m trying to think of, like, specific instances where. Oh, well, I’ll tell you this. I. At one point, Mia and I had been dating for a couple years, and I had decided I was gonna go to law school and all this stuff, and we ended up breaking up. And I realized at some point after that breakup that I had been putting. I’d been using fitness as like, kind of an excuse not to get out of my comfort zone.
But also, I was very concerned about, like, interrupting my fitness stuff. So, like, for instance, we weren’t hanging out that much in, like, settings that she liked. We were. We were not going out and doing. Being social and stuff like that. And I was always like, well, I’m not going to lose sleep if I don’t really like going out. I’m not going to drink alcohol if I don’t really.
You know what I mean? So it was always, like, a fallback. I could be like, oh, I don’t want to do any of this stuff because it’s going to hurt my gains or whatever, you know? And so I realized that I was putting fitness, like, even at that point, putting fitness, like, above everything else. It was like fitness relationship, you know, mental health.
Like, it was all. It was below, like, making progress was like, priority number one, because I was still in that mindset of, like, having the fittest body means I’m going to be the happiest. And so that was when we broke up, and I started to, like, come undone because I was like, none of this is making me happy. I can. I can fully focus on fitness now, but guess what?
I’m. I’m not happy. I’m just searching for attention and love, and that’s what I really want. And that’s when I, like, I think that was actually the turning point for me when I realized, like, oh, this is miserable. Like, I. I had been convincing myself that, like, people were distractions and my relationship was, like, a little bit annoying because she didn’t understand it and whatever, and.
And then I lost it, and I was like, oh, my God, it’s been me this whole time. You know what I mean? Like, it was like. It was like. It was this weird thing where I just had realized, like, oh, my gosh, I’ve been putting fitness above everything else, and fitness doesn’t make me happy the way that other people do and that real meaningful connection does. And, like, it. It just was a mindset, mind grenade, because I was like, I. I need to change something.
And that’s when it started to get better. It didn’t get better right away, but I. I realized I needed to make a priority change. Um, yeah. So what. I mean, yeah, actually, that’s a good question for you. What. What was, like, the day or the. The moment where you realized, like, I need to change something about how I’m doing things? Was it when you were hospitalized and then that was, like, the point?
Giacomo:
Yeah, I Came to. It was a light bulb moment for me. I came to realization, well, if I’m not healthy, if I’m not mentally well enough to exist in society, if I need to be hospitalized, then I’m doing something wrong. And it was shortly thereafter that I found vegan bodybuilding.com and I was on the road to recovery and I was dehosp. It was a short period of time, it was a couple weeks.
But still to kid it feels like a lifetime. A young man, when your autonomy is taken away like that, it’s. It hurts, right? So I got out of it. I was already recovering. I got back into lifting, I got back into eating well, I got back into sports instead of trying to cure my father because I got into like weird metaphysical spiritual stuff. And that just throws other stupid layer onto everything.
I hate talking about stuff. Believe it or not. I don’t want to dominate the conversation that things really ridiculous. Really ridiculous. And as a 20 year old, like you were mentioning the whole tool thing. You use the tools to, to do what you want to do and you can create a whole other host of problems. But we’re not going to, we’re not going to go there. That was a turnaround point for me. I, I started doing all the things that I really wanted to be doing but didn’t believe that I could.
And then I met community, I met my tribe, I met other vegans, I met Danny. We had a meetup. Everything just started getting better and better. I was already on the other side of this, but Danny and I were still very much so figuring out what I mean. She had her own body image issues which would talk about again and has, and I know she has talked about them a lot, started working on solutions together. That’s literally how we started doing everything that we do.
Sawyer:
Wow.
Giacomo:
Today it’s been 16 years of this.
Sawyer:
It’s amazing, dude. You know what? It strikes me about what you just said was like connection with other people was like the solution in both cases. It seemed like it started, it was the spark that rekindled the healing journey. And because yeah, when you were, when you were alone, when you’re alone in your thoughts and in your head and you.
And you just kind of close in and you think, no, I have to do this alone. I have to figure this out. This is important to me. Nobody really gets it that, that kind of stuff. You can go pretty, pretty deep into a dark place because nobody. You feel like you don’t let anybody in to like help you out and they can, you know, everybody out on the outside.
Like, I remember at certain points in my. Like in college, I would come home, you know, for a weekend or whatever, when they’d be like, you look really skinny. Like, are you okay? Like, you’re like, are you eating enough and stuff. And I’m like, yeah, mom, you don’t have to tell. You know what I mean? Like, I know what I’m doing, and I didn’t. But.
But you kind of block people out who. You think that don’t get it. But it’s only after we got humbled by, like, realizing, oh, I don’t know what I’m doing. This is a little scary. And then. And then inviting that connection back in with people, we felt like kind of get it, or. Or maybe we felt like we hadn’t been giving them the credit they deserve or something like that.
That’s what started it back up of being like, oh, you know what? I’m not this, like, special case that nobody can understand. Like, everybody feels alone sometimes, and everybody feels insecure. And, you know, like, you’re talking about Danny having body image issues. It’s a good thing that we all have body image issues. And if we were able to talk about it, because it’s.
I think it’s. It’s tempting to think, like, when you see everybody on social media, like, in their bathing suits, and they all, like, happy and stuff, and you’re like, why can’t I be like that? You know? Or, like, whatever. It’s. It’s very tempting to think nobody has those issues. And it’s only when you start to, like, really connect with people on, like, a vulnerable level, like. Like, we’re doing right now that you realize, like, oh, my gosh, like, everybody kind of feels like
this sometimes. And, like, I can’t just, like, try to control them away. I need to, like, talk about them and, like, open myself up to other experiences and other people and what they’re doing and how they deal with stuff. Because, yeah, closing in is, like, never the answer, you know, Just trippy to me. Yeah.
Giacomo:
So you had this turning point with Mia after you separated briefly, and then you came back to your relationship, and you’re like, what you’re looking to do is not only. Not only is it not serving you, it’s not serving what you want out of life, your relationship. And that was your aha moment after the fact. What did you start to do differently that created your turning point?
Sawyer:
Well, the first big thing was just, like, I think I literally wrote this out. It was, like, priorities. Like, it was like, it went from fitness over everything to, like, flip. Like, fitness went, you know, a couple notches down. Like, it was like relationship and then like, you know, health, and then it was like fitness. And I think that started to just play out how you would think.
It’s like, okay, I started to be kinder to myself with fitness stuff, and then I started to loosen the reins on some of these things a little bit more. And lo and behold, like, having, you know, if you’re. If you’re so far on this, like, control spectrum where you’re like, trying to control every little thing, even. Even if you do make progress, it’s not going to feel like enough because you’re exerting so much effort to make it happen that you’re like, this isn’t worth the trade of,
like, how much effort I have to give. And. And when I moved away from that a little bit and started just being like, I’m just gonna. I think what. At a certain point when I was in law school, I started being like, I just want to focus on, like, maybe I should focus on performance more than like, my. My, like, body image goals. Because it’s very hard to, like, look at a picture of yourself and be like, oh, I need to bring this up or that up and.
Or I need to get leaner or whatever and then just try to do all that. At the same time, I feel like I was a little bit scrambled with that. And instead I was like, you know what? Maybe I will, you know, eat close to, like, maintenance calories and then I will just like. Or maybe eat a little bit more. I forget what I decided at that point, but I was like, I want to focus on, like, the numbers that objectively I’m getting better at in the gym.
And I think that started to take some of the focus off of my body and be more about what I could do, which was weird because I had never cared about that before. But I was just like, I’m just tired of second guessing everything and, like, being so focused on how I’d look at any given moment. Like, I couldn’t even convince myself to do, like, a real bulk because I was just, like, so afraid of losing the abs and all that stuff, you know?
I mean, I’m sure you, you know what I’m talking about. Like, have you. When did it start to change for you? Like, did you notice similar things that you’re thinking or how did you get out of it?
Giacomo:
Definitely different for me. I. So. But I want to make sure I heard you right. So you Had a. You had struggles? Did you have struggles throughout when you were trying to look a certain way as far as focusing on how much you could lift and what was.
Sawyer:
Yeah, I mean, it wasn’t, like, immediately better when I started to focus on how much I could lift, and I think I. That started me down a path of, like, doing a little bit too much. Like, I started really liking that, and then I started bulking a little too hard, which is not the worst thing that ever happened to me, to be honest. It was. It was a little bit liberating, actually, to be like, oh, wow, I’m over £200 and I don’t look terrible.
So that. That’s how that ended up going. Um, but I think that’s what started to pull me away from just focusing on, like, the pictures and the scale. And all this stuff that I was, like, stressing about was like, let me just talk about. Let me just think about performance for a while. I think that’s what started to pull me away from the comparing myself to other people and looking in the mirror all the time and checking on the scale every day, you know?
So, yeah, performance, I think, started to become more alluring, and then I started to focus more on that, and then I think it was a little bit too. Too aggressive. But it actually worked out because I came back to center after that. So I think it was a good thing overall to start focusing on performance for me. Um, yeah.
Giacomo:
Is that your first trip after all this happened to bulking like that and weighing over 200 and muscle?
Sawyer:
Yeah. I mean, it wasn’t right away that I went all the way up to 200. Like, at first I went up to like, 180 from. I think I was. I would usually stay around 1 60s or something, maybe 1 70. And then I. I started to get into the 1 80s for the first time when I started focusing on performance. And I think that was overall a good thing. I think I. From that point, I was struggling with, like, not being too excited to bulk and.
And gain too fast. I think that’s what started that kind of section of. Of my journey, which I think would say. I would say started in, like, probably like, when I was in law school. So, like, 2015. Ish. 2016, all the way up to, like, 2018 or so? Well, no, actually, no, it was more recent than that. Like 2020, 2021. So, like, that period of my life, I think I was struggling with, like, okay, bouncing between poles a little bit, but, like, leaning more heavy in the.
On the bulking side. And not really liking how I looked at the end of that, but also gaining a lot of strength and muscle along the way, so it was, like, kind of a thing. So I think now in. In more recent years, I’ve been more, like, balanced with it and not going too hard in either direction and trying to just make smaller, incremental improvements so that I like how I look the whole time.
And then if I get a little bit too chubby, I’m like, okay, I’ll pull it back a little bit. But, yeah, it’s a hard balance. Um, and I have, like. Just like you, I. I have a tendency to take things too far. Sometimes when I get excited about something and I’m like, oh, I could go a little bit harder. I can go a little bit longer. Um, and then I’m like, oh, man, I pushed a little too hard and I have to reset. But, yeah. But, yeah, enough about me.
I’m curious about you. So at that point, you were. You were at your lowest. You’re in the hospital, but then you meet Danny, you start making. Meeting Community and all that stuff. What. What. What protocols did you start to enact to, like, pull you out of or like, what. What kind of followed from. From you feeling that way or feeling better with Community? How. How did that kind of develop from there?
Giacomo:
Hmm. Well, I created a new pain point, because now I feared imposter syndrome. And I. And I knew I needed to be an authority to help other people and I needed to listen to where they were at, and I had to uphold a certain image.
Sawyer:
Yeah.
Giacomo:
So that created a new problem.
Sawyer:
Okay.
Giacomo:
But it also helped me create solutions to figure out how to work on myself the entire time. So embarrassing, I think. But also it gave me the confidence to keep going.
Sawyer:
Yeah. Were you competing at that time? You were competing. Were you competing at that time, or. No. Yet.
Giacomo:
I started competing, and, yeah, Robert and I did a documentary right around that time, a couple years after the fact, because he. The both of us were, like, looking for an opportunity. Activism work and this and that, and he wanted to take it off his bulletin board and he wanted to do some sort of movie.
He was into filmmaking, so he wanted to do something. It wasn’t good enough footage to create a film out of, but I wound up doing a bodybuilding competition a couple of them after the fact, when life had changed and we’d started vegan proteins. And we moved and moved in together and all that stuff.
Sawyer:
Okay.
Giacomo:
It was definitely really, really messy. Some of the weird spiritual stuff and. And the things that just weren’t rooted in evidence based nutrition principles, just basic science as far as how to eat. Some of that stuff was still playing out in my life and you know, I started to look for better information with Danny and Danny did a lot of research as well and that got us to a better place where we started making better choices with how to eat.
Sawyer:
Yeah, that makes sense because you guys put out a lot of very matter of fact, not very like flashy or woo woo stuff. And I really appreciate that because I feel like it’s so easy to fall into marketing gimmicks and stuff which I find really annoying because it’s, I get, I get that like you have to sell the ideas to people, but I feel like it’s often just so oversimplified and, and also they try to make it a whole
philosophy instead of just kind of stick to the evidence. So I appreciate you guys are just like, stay in your lane, let’s give good advice. And you know, I like the F industry.
Giacomo:
You wind up seeing people package things up that are going to bring people in and then you hope that they get the actual right information. But sometimes like you said, it just a little too philosophical. People are claiming they’re experts at things that they know nothing about that knowing right now because there’s not even enough research out there.
Yeah, we don’t know what we don’t know. We don’t claim that we have the magical answer or whatever. And it’s just, we’ve just, I mean it’s, it’s the boring stuff, not the flashy stuff that we’ve been focusing on for. Well, these are the things that work. This is how you get better at it with your lifestyle, with habits, routine. Your process is going to be directly related to your lifestyle and the struggles that you have had.
P.S. we have struggled too. And the deeper we get into this line of work, the more open we now become because we have established a good, we’ve set a good precedent with the information we’re putting out there and helping other people. And now it’s time where we’re like, okay, well maybe we can be a little more open about our previous experiences as well.
Sawyer:
Yeah, it’s a lot easier in hindsight right. When you’re going through it. It’s a, it’s really scary and you don’t know where it’s going to end. So it’s, I know we’re, we’re very privileged to be able to look back on this and say, wow, that was a crazy time and glad we survived. It. And we came out. Okay. Um, with that. On that note, I’m curious why, you know, since you remember, you.
You said that, like, the. The first, like, trigger. Big trigger for you was like, the. The first bodybuilding competition you did. So I’m curious why you went in and did them again when you were like. You know what I mean? Like, you. You were like, okay, that was crazy. And then you’re like, okay, I gotta change my life because you had the.
The, like, you know, psychotic break thing. And then you’re like, oh, my gosh, that was crazy. I can’t do that again. And then at some point, you’re like, I want to compete again. Where’s the. How did you. How did we connect those things? What. What made you want to compete?
Giacomo:
Well, I started to believe that I could do it, right? I was sty. Didn’t want to be skinny anymore. I wanted to see if I could be muscular again, but to do it in a way where I wasn’t just gaining weight, like I did when I was 20 and I was £225, and I was like, nice to be big, but, like, this isn’t muscle big. This is. I’m just weighing more than I should. Maybe even somewhat unhealthy, at least. Unhealthy for me as far as how I felt in my body image. That much I could say for sure.
Sawyer:
Right?
Giacomo:
And now’s the time to be like, okay, well, maybe I can be fit, muscular, as opposed to just a big, stocky guy.
Sawyer:
Mm. Mm.
Giacomo:
And I don’t want to be skinny.
Sawyer:
Yeah, I know. I get that. It’s. It’s a delicate balance because some people will praise you for being that skinny, and other people will be like, you don’t look good. And then. And I. I think at a certain point of. I don’t know about you, but, like, at a certain point of, like, having a bunch of different versions of yourself to look back on. Like, super lean, tiny, you know, bigger, but, like, a little bit chunkier or somewhere in the middle.
You know what I mean? All these things, you kind of start to realize, like, oh, I’m the only one that really cares this much about it. And, like, everybody on the outside just kind of, like, is like, okay, I guess that’s what he’s doing now. Like, nobody thinks about it as much as you think you do as you think they do, and. And you should just be doing what makes you happy with your body, because there’s no.
There’s no, like, objective standard. I think that’s what I was looking for a lot of the time was, was like, okay, what’s the body that like, I will like and everybody will like and it will just draw people to me and my life will be a perfect, you know, whatever. Right. I just thought that there was like this magic body composition I could get to.
I don’t know why I thought that. But at any rate, you go through enough versions of yourself to realize like, oh, I do a bunch of different stuff and people like, kind of notice and compliments kind of feel good and come in trickle in sometimes. But like, at the end of the day, those are all blocked out by how you feel about yourself in that moment anyway.
Like, you could people be like, wow, you look good. And like, you’d be like, cool, thanks. And then you’d go right back to feeling like how you were feeling anyway. So your mental health really is more reflective of how you’re going to be feeling about your body than getting compliments or how other people perceive you. And I think that started to clue me into like, oh, I need to do what makes me happy and not try to look for a way out of my anxiety for this stuff.
Because there’s no possible body composition I could ever be at that I would never feel insecure, or that I would never feel out of place, or that I would never not like my body on a given day. And once I accepted that reality, I think things got a lot better because I stopped trying to chase like perfect and I just tried to continue to improve in the ways that I thought, like at the given moment I, I felt like would be good.
And so, yeah, I guess what I’m trying to say is like, I don’t know, do you feel like you got to that point where you were like, you know what? I just need to focus on me and, and I feel like I’ve been way too externally motivated or validation motivated. Is not, not what your journey was like, what was yours?
Giacomo:
The opposite. I definitely get externally motivated. I still am, in all honesty, it’s probably something I still wrestle with where it’s like, is, especially as a coach and having done this for 10 plus years, I wrestle with that concept as a competitive athlete. I wrestle with the concept that I’m not trying to do this for the sport or for the judges or for the audience, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, I think I still struggle with that. A family.
Sawyer:
Yeah. Well, don’t, to be fair, I’m not saying I don’t. I’m just saying I, I try to focus on that now and look, when. When people talk to me about competing and stuff, I’m almost like, I’m a little nervous to do, put myself on that, in that position, because I know how it feels to me when I get comments. Like, I remember, you know, just like when you’re growing up and you get comments on your body. Like, I remember teachers saying that I was very skinny.
I remember my mom saying, and she’s the sweetest lady ever. I wouldn’t even tell her. I’ve never brought this up to her because she wouldn’t. She’d be mortified. But she told me, like, I had a little poochie on my stomach one time and I was like, 14. And I still remember that. You know what I mean? And it’s like, so I was just so insecure that, like, anything could, you know, set me off.
Giacomo:
How many times have you heard stuff like that from your clients? It was a dance teacher. It was my mother telling me to stop eating. It was some. It was whatever. Like, yeah, you know what?
Sawyer:
Yeah, this is a big point, actually. That. That’s. That’s a good point is like. But in a vacuum, like, if there’s no other feedback coming in, like, that’s a big deal. Like, saying you’re skinny or you have a little tummy or whatever is a big deal. But if you’ve been told, like, if people don’t shy away from the topic of body image and you’re told, like, hey, you’re great, you’re healthy, you’re strong, like, great job.
You’re. I, like, you know what I mean? That kind of stuff, like, positive interactions about your body can help block out anything that comes in. That’s like. Because you have a. You have something to go off of. Right. I feel like as. Especially when you’re young, you’re just, like, looking everywhere and trying to absorb, like, who am I? What do people see in me?
Like, what. You know what I mean? And so if you’re getting the only feedback you’re ever getting about this topic, which is my body, is like, like, just little offhanded comments. It’s not like they’re trying to destroy you and they shouldn’t be able to destroy you. They can’t destroy us now. But when you’re a kid, you’re so vulnerable. Especially if nobody’s ever told you, like, hey, you’re very healthy and strong.
I’m very. You know what I mean? Like, great job. Sometimes people just assume, you know, that. You know what I mean? Even. Even later in life, like, I’ve I guess I think if I were to tell this to my parents now, they’d be like, wait, you’ve always, like, worked out and, like, you know, felt confident and things. You know what I mean? They think that I’ve been confident not realizing, like, the reason I worked out as obsessively as I did, especially at that age, was because I lacked so
much confidence, because nobody had ever told me or I hadn’t really sat down and thought about my body image and, like, what I was chasing. And I think if somebody had talked to me about it and, like, shared their experiences with me, I think I would have had a better journey or, like, more consciousness around, like, what I was doing and how. How hard I was going and all this stuff. You know what I mean?
Giacomo:
Yeah. Meanwhile, someone signs up with us and they’re like, just tell me what my macros are and keep me accountable to lift and, like, be hard on me or just be emotionally supportive for, like, making sure of whether or not I can or can I stick to my plan? And then they avoid. And they don’t check in. They don’t want to talk about, like, the stuff that we’re talking about.
Those little. Sometimes they come out, like, every once in awesome will be like, I struggle, really. And you can tell, like, they’re hurting. It hurt them just to say it and, like, it released the pressure valve and they said it other times. People talk about it a lot, but I feel like what you often get with clients and people in general when you try to broach this conversation is they just straight up, they’re so shut down, it’s so repressed that they would be regretful to even think
about it. And they typically, in my personal experience as a coach and I deal with this too, they’re in a position where they’re like, this is not the answer. Getting this stuff out is only going to hurt me. This is not going to help me feel better about myself getting the body that I want.
Sawyer:
And yeah, they’re so convinced.
Giacomo:
It’s like, you’re gonna get the body you want. You’re not going to be happy if you’re lucky enough to get the body that you want. If you’re that much of a, like, a doer, which not everyone can get through all this muck. Like, the stuff that you and I, I mean, we talk about this stuff all day long for a living, but it’s been 15 years, and there’s still some stuff that is coming out of conversation today that I haven’t discussed with anyone for Example, so imagine the average client that
doesn’t do this for a living. This is not something that they research. This is not something that they have multiple conversations about every single day. You put yourself in their shoes and no wonder why they’re afraid to talk about this stuff, or they don’t think that this stuff is going to help, or they feel isolated, you know, and having a person like you or me or any other coach who really focuses in a supportive way can make a world of a difference for somebody because it’s not
the conversation that you normally have. And unfortunately, despite people’s best efforts and best intention, they don’t know how to approach this conversation the right way when someone else is. Is coming out with it.
Sawyer:
Yeah, dude, you’re off. I just want a round of applause right there. That was a really good I. That’s exactly succinctly how I was thinking is, like, yeah, if you shut it down, like, if you just say, oh, no, I’m just going to focus on the habits and get the body I want, and then I’ll, you know, think about how I feel about it. It’s. It’s backwards.
You’re never going to get to the point where you’re just like, oh, man, my body’s perfect now, and I’m so happy. It just doesn’t. It’s a mental health thing first and foremost. And your body will come, you know, like, the habits will. Will get you the body, but you’re also not going about it a healthy way if you don’t open up. And, like. And I find that, you know, to your point, like, to build off of your point, a lot of the clients that I had the most success with more consistently are the
people who have been up and down and done all this stuff, and they’re just like, I’m so tired. I’ve. I’ve done so many things, and none of it’s worked. Please, just. Let’s just talk about. I’m so open to whatever, and let’s just do this. You know, I want to be honest and real. Like, I’m so tired of the fake stuff and the marketing stuff. And they just get to this point where they’re like, like, you’re in the hospital or me with my relationship.
They’re at. They’re at a low. They’ve had a low point where they’re like, okay, I’m no longer convinced that I know exactly what needs to happen. And as soon as they hit that, and I can guide them on the path of, like, hey, remember, like, Mental health is really important. And they’re like, okay, you know what I mean? If they’re okay with that, that’s when they do the best.
You know what I mean? Because now, now then when we’re having conversations, they’re not just saying, oh, don’t worry about me, I’m just going to do whatever. They’re like, well, here’s where I struggle because you asked. You know, I’m always asking, obviously, and you are always checking in with people about how they’re feeling about things.
You no longer bulldoze your own emotions when you realize, oh my gosh, I’m exhausted emotionally from doing this so long, I need to find a better way to do this. And so you work with somebody like us who know how important the emotional side of the mental side of this is, and we’re like, okay, how does this feel? Where do you, where do you feel like you’re coming up short? Where are the ways that we can improve things? And the more that we craft a program and a mindset and a momentum behind
you and you feel like you did it with your imperfectly and everything. It’s a night and day difference between doing that, you know, and doing something that was like a 12 week program that you just forced yourself into doing. And it was like, you know what I mean? Like, because, oh my gosh, I’m so passionate about this. But like, man, you, you nailed it when you said all that. Yeah, for sure.
Giacomo:
And that’s the part where someone has no idea what they’re getting into and sometimes you can’t get them there. And that’s the depressing part, I think, about coaching is you keep trying, but it’s hard. You can’t force someone to come to the table and have a conversation about something. You could create all the support in the world for them.
You could broach the topic. You can try to figure out like where they’re at, but sometimes it’s just really hard. But the silver lining is that in theory, ideally, they can at least get the results they’re looking for on paper. They can get the body they want. They can have better control of their habits and their discipline and their mindset has shifted somewhat.
They have confidence that they’re able to do it. There is a lot of other things that you can do as far as experiencing personal growth when, when you find a way to be open to it. I would say a good coach will make you open to it, but it’s, it’s not always the case, which is why this particular conversation I. I feel like it’s important because our clients are probably.
Our clients are listening to this, others are listening to this, and perhaps it’ll give them more comps. Be like, yeah, that’s what I should be talking about. That’s what I should be doing that’s going to help me because all this stuff can really go far.
Sawyer:
You’re totally right. You’re totally right. It’s so. It’s so hard to open up. And that’s why people default to, no, I’ll just do this stuff. Just tell me what to do. Like, I’ll do the stuff. But the problem is that it’s never the same stuff for the same for everybody. And that’s why coaching is necessary. So the more that people can open up and.
And I found that leading with vulnerability is a really good way to do that. And I. I suspect you do, too, because, like, that’s why we’re having this conversation, is we’re trying to broadcast our vulnerability, our story to everybody, and get them to realize, like, oh, I don’t have to, like, close in and close off. People do understand what it feels like to be kind of stuck in this place where you’re afraid of everything and you want to control everything so tightly and all this
stuff. So, like, we get it, and that’s why coaching is so cathartic for us, is because we’ve been there. And leading people out of that dark place is so rewarding because you’ve Take. You’ve. You’ve almost, like, healed your past self again every time you do that a little bit. And so, yeah, man, I think leading with vulnerability is really important because we need to show people that the more that they open up and let their real feelings out and, like, talk about them, it’s not.
It’s not that we’re having crying sessions every time. It’s literally like, people are like, oh, my gosh. I realized that I’m afraid of the scale because this, this, and this. And I’ll be like, oh, well, you don’t have to worry about. Because science. This, this, and this. And, like, also, I get what you’re saying. And then little by little, people start to come out of their shell and feel more confident in what they’re doing and then getting more results.
And then it just kind of snowballs. You know what I mean? And then pretty soon, they’re. They’re just doing everything that they never thought they could do and looking how they wanted to look, but also, more importantly, feeling better about it. Like, feeling better about their Body in general, feeling better about their knowledge and what they know about themselves and how they.
I guess that’s what’s missing, right, Is they think, oh, it’s all just about the what. Like, it’s about the stuff I need to do. But more than anything, it’s about them and understanding themselves and how they can best fit into. You know what I mean?
Giacomo:
Yeah. And then they start to think, well, it’s like, okay, well, you’re not a counselor. That’s not what I came here for. This is like we’re talking about. This is that we’re talking about ourselves zone. But honestly, there are different layers of things that you can get out of a fitness coach. Different kinds of things, as you say, excuse me. And that’s the kind of stuff where you can start to figure out, like, what. What’s going on. What got them to where they are now.
Sawyer:
Yeah, well, that’s what I mean, what a coach does is like, we. We know the fitness stuff, but, like, to be honest, the fitness stuff is not all that complex. You can do a lot of different things and make progress. I know there’s some stuff that people do that’s just wacky and doesn’t work, but, like, for the most part, you go to the gym, you lift heavier and heavier weights, you eat enough protein, you eat enough calories, you’re going to make progress.
It’s more about, we have to figure out what makes this person tick. And if they don’t let us in and they’re just kind of putting on this show, like, I’ll just do whatever. Don’t worry about me. I don’t have emotions, whatever. They’re not learning the stuff that’s going to keep them in it long enough and that it’s going to keep them healthy. And that’s where kind of the coach stuff really helps is because we’re trying to marry the two.
We’re trying to get them to fall in love with fitness to a degree and make it work for them instead of against them. Like, it has their whole lives, most of them, but, man, I just feel like words fail me when I’m trying to explain how this works. I wish I could just show people, and I guess I try to with testimonials and stuff, but it’s just hard to explain to such a broad audience, you know, I guess what.
What something that works a lot for us coaches is like, analogies. So, like, I tell. I’ll often think of people, like, telling people, like, okay, think of a time in your life where you Felt like you could not do something. Like, it was impossible, it was insurmountable, but you really wanted it. And, you know, because right now with fitness, that’s how they feel, but they’re just not to the end of that, or they haven’t made much progress in that journey yet, and so they’ve come to us.
But I’m like, think about another thing. But, like, the one you’ve already been successful with, like, did it. Did it happen that you just, like, forced yourself to do these things and eventually it worked and then you felt good about it, or did you have to find a way that you actually enjoyed doing it and then you kept doing it because you liked it? You know what I mean? And then you felt like you had achieved some success with it. And I think that is probably the biggest thing I want to
get through to people is like, you cannot just bulldoze your emotions and, like, try to go through life with, like, just like, white knuckling it, because you will get tired and you won’t keep doing it, and then you’ll be frustrated and say, do I not have any discipline? Do I not have any willpower? It’s. You do, but you can’t do things you hate indefinitely. You just can’t. So you got to find a way to make yourself like it, if that makes sense.
Giacomo:
Kind of. Yeah. It’s. There’s no. There’s no one size fits all, for sure, when it comes to the conversation that you have that’s ongoing with your client to get them to a healthy place where it’s so much more than, did I eat a certain way in a certain amount and did I lift enough and do I look. I want to look. Otherwise some sort of stupid pattern from the past will just replay.
Sawyer:
Yeah. So true. It’s so true. Because you have to. Yeah, you’re. You’re. You’re running the same software. Unless you upgrade it, you’re. You’re just going to keep playing out the same way. Yeah. Ben would call it being process oriented. Right. Makes sense. I know. I love how he talks, man. He’s a smart guy. But. Yeah, so. So being process oriented and trying to figure out where have I gone wrong in the process and where’s my mindset, where’s my software?
Kind of led me astray in the past, and what do I need to talk about with my coach to, like, really convince myself of. Because once I’m convinced and I know, and then I try it and it works, like, guess what? You’re set. You’re going to keep going. You’re going to keep running that software. As long as it’s scientifically sound, it’ll work. Yeah.
Giacomo:
Anyway, we talked about where this stuff came from. We talked about how it played out for you and I personally. And then we talked about how we got on the other side and how this conversation continues with the work that we do and throughout community. And obviously, we want to encourage you, the listener, to not be afraid to have these conversations and to get that stuff out there so you can process it because
it’s so much more than just how you eat and how you train. Is there anything else you do wanted to add to this? You feel like you feel like we covered it all? Any parting thoughts?
Sawyer:
Man, you know, with these things, it’s like I go forever. But I feel like we did cover a lot of ground and hopefully people feel like seen by this kind of stuff. I guess I’ll just add, if you ever want to talk about this stuff in like, a more private setting with any of us, please reach out. Like, my DMS are open Soy boy fitness coaching on Instagram. And I’m sure, Giacomo, you same thing. We love talking to people about their stories.
It’s not like an emotional burden if you’re feeling a certain type of way. Because like I said, we kind of relive our past every time we talk about this stuff. And it feels good to help somebody else out of that hole, you know, even. Even just with conversation, like encouraging thing, or if you just need some advice, like, please reach out to us. We’re not afraid to have those conversations. We actually look forward to them.
Giacomo:
Yes, we most certainly do. All right, Fran. Well, this is our first hopefully of many more to come episodes where you recording together. I want to thank everyone so much for tuning into another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. Stay in touch with us at Vegan Proteins and Muscles by Brussels. On all the socials, hit the contact button on veganproteins.com and you will hear from one of us once again. My name is Giacomo.
Sawyer:
I’m Sawyer and we’ll talk to you soon. Bye.
