Today, Giacomo and Alice dive into the importance of balanced nutrition and protein intake, especially for those with fitness goals. They share practical tips on structuring macronutrients, making nutritious meals enjoyable, and gradually increasing protein intake to meet individual needs. The conversation also explores how social media and the fitness industry can shape our perceptions of health and nutrition—sometimes in misleading ways. Plus, they emphasize the 80/20 approach to eating, helping you stay on track while still enjoying your favorite foods.
Highlights from this episode:
- How to Optimize Protein Intake – Tips on gradually increasing protein consumption, with general targets for men and women, and how to make it more manageable.
- Balancing Your Diet for Sustainability – The importance of the 80/20 approach to nutrition, incorporating whole foods while allowing flexibility for enjoyment.
- Navigating Misinformation in Fitness & Social Media – A discussion on how unrealistic portrayals of health and fitness can impact our perceptions and goals.
- Building a Supportive Nutrition & Fitness Plan – Strategies for structuring meals, staying consistent, and accessing community support for long-term success.
Tune in for an honest, relatable chat that goes beyond the highlight reels and into the heart of what it means to connect authentically.
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Related Phrases:
Protein Intake for Muscle Growth, Protein Goals, 80/20 Rule, Debunking Fitness Myths & Social Media Trends, Healthy Eating Habits
Transcript:
[Alice:]
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Vegan Protein’s Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Alice.
[Giacomo:]
And I’m Giacomo.
[Alice:]
And this is episode 208.
[Giacomo:]
What was the last thing that we recorded? I forgot.
[Alice:]
Oh, I remember recording it. I don’t remember what it was about.
[Giacomo:]
We had a good time. Yes, I remember you were at the end of your competition prep or were you already competing at that point?
[Alice:]
I think it was right after it was complete. Because I think, was I just getting over one of my many illnesses that I contracted after getting off of stage? I think it was something like that.
But I don’t remember what it was about. I’m so sorry.
[Giacomo:]
That’s okay. Oh my gosh. There’s a certain, when you have prep brain, it takes one, you recognize it right away when you’re someone who has prepped.
You’re like, I know exactly what that person’s going through. Let me throw them some love. Let me throw in some support.
Because when you’re in it, you’re in it. And if you haven’t been through it, it’s hard to explain it to someone else.
[Alice:]
Oh, yeah. There’s only so much room in your brain. And when you are that low on carbohydrates, basically that low on brain fuel, you’re just like, all right, that’s in one ear out the other, moving on to the next thing.
And there’s literally so many conversations that I don’t remember happening at all from prep. And poor Carson. Poor Carson is like, we already talked about this.
Don’t you remember? And I was like, was it during prep? He said, yeah, I’m like, no, I had, it’s gone.
I feel so bad. He’s so patient. And he’s just, he’s just the saint about it.
Thank goodness.
[Giacomo:]
Well, supposedly he wants to prep too.
[Alice:]
It’s gonna be my turn to take care of him. Hopefully. We keep, we keep pushing off the date, but we want to do it.
We want him to compete soon. It’s gonna be great. He’s really got great genetics for it.
And he’s been lifting a long time. We’ve just got to focus on some, some parts of the anatomy and he’s gonna be ready to go. He’s gonna get up on stage.
He’s gonna crush it.
[Giacomo:]
I’m looking forward to that for sure. It’s gonna be about, let’s see, not this year, not next year, probably the year after. So 2027 is what I’m mapping out for my next prep.
Right now I’m doing everything I can to be in the best place possible for when I start striking distance wise, and also structurally to have as much muscle in my body for when I started in all the right places. So as you know, it’s a long game, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. People don’t seem to realize that because it’s so, how do I say, extreme and exciting.
It’s like a little, it’s an adrenaline rush to compete. So people think that they could just dive right in. And I guess in some ways you can, but it really is, if you want to do good in it, you got to prepare for quite some time.
[Alice:]
Yeah. If you want to do well, there’s going to be a build involved. If you’re, if you’ve just been a person who’s lifted, you know, mostly even mostly consistently.
If you haven’t had a specific program, you haven’t been through that build, you’re going to diet down and you’re going to be disappointed with, with your results. Right. So I’m going to get up, maybe you won’t want to get up on stage or maybe you’ll get up on stage and be like, oh, snap, maybe this was too soon.
[Giacomo:]
Exactly. I think there’s something to be said though, for the buy-in period where you hop up there because you want to see what it feels like and you want to get your feet wet and you want to understand how to do it. And then after the fact, if it’s more than a bucket list item or a thing that you kind of want to do, if you want to make it a career, dare I say, or something you want to get better at the next two or three times that you compete, you have to invest a lot more time into it in the improvement season, the off season, however you want to call it.
[Alice:]
For sure. It’s not as like glamorous as you guys think when you’re the person on stage, it’s like you get up there and it’s just so uncomfortable and it’s just all a blur and just do the best you can. And there’s so many things you can’t control, but yeah, you’re right.
There’s so many people that want to get up there just as like a bucket list, just for just to say they have the experience and that’s great. I think it’s good, but you know, most people aren’t going to want to continue to compete like again and again and again because it’s a lot. It’s very long.
It’s very uncomfortable. I love it. I love it, but I’m a crazy person.
[Giacomo:]
Same here. Takes one to know one. And I’m imagining it’s going to be a little bit of time before you hop back up there, right?
[Alice:]
Oh yeah. I’m looking to build for at least two years and I’ve been really open about this with anyone who asks. I’m looking to put on at least another 10 pounds on top of what I gained from my last build.
So I’m going to, I’m just going to press the process, dive in and do it because I want to see a significant build right now. I want to see significant changes to my body. So I know I can do it.
It’s going to take time. I got to be patient. I got to not just not have FOMO, you know, it’s going to be hard not being able to like compete with plant belt.
Right. But like, I know it’s, what’s best. I know it’s, what’s going to get me the progress that I need.
And yeah, as long as I can just get over the FOMO, I’m going to be okay. I’m thinking about trying like some, maybe when I’m fully recovered, cause I’m really not like fully hormonally recovered yet, but like when I’m fully recovered, I’m thinking about just trying like some power lifting on the side, not, not, not competition wise, but just like, you know, something to get me excited to go to the gym, something that, you know, I don’t know. There’s nothing more exciting to me than getting a PR with a barbell for some reason.
You just feel like Superman. So it’ll be fun. It’ll be fun.
I mean, I need to find things to distract me and I’m going to have plenty of that.
[Giacomo:]
Right. And for someone like you, it’s probably pretty easy to obsess over the thing you want to get better at, because you’re goal driven process oriented. This is your life.
I can understand and completely relate. What kinds of things do you feel like you might have missed out on outside of this though, that you’re able to focus on now? Are you looking back regret and be like, let me try to do these things because it’s easy to talk about and think about your goal and what you have to do to get there and like balancing out a little more.
But I know for me, I usually find myself fantasizing about a hedonistic lifestyle when I’m prepping, where it’s all pleasure. And I just have to imagine and fantasize about all the things that I couldn’t do, because I can’t actually do them. Right.
It’s like if you’re disabled or injured, this or that, and you got to find a way to entertain yourself, and you’re not able to do the things you normally do, what do you do? Use your imagination, you start imagining you were there, and then you find ways to do stuff. And I feel like that’s the pitfall after a prep is all of a sudden, you’re in that mindset of the things that you couldn’t do.
And you have to control that somehow. But you also have to allow yourself to like breathe and live a little. So what kinds of things have you focused on outside of the idea of balancing out and not being as focused on competing and trying to push harder for the next time?
[Alice:]
I mean, you know, I think the saddest thing for me was probably that, you know, when I first started that prep, it was like during the holidays. So it felt like I didn’t get a Thanksgiving or Christmas, like dinner with family. And just focusing on social life.
I feel like I kind of, and this is normal, this is normal for prep, you’re unable to do the social things that everyone kind of wants to do and expects you to do, going out, getting food together. You know, they’ll be, my friends will be having alcohol, be having non-alcoholic beer. You know, I can’t be in those settings.
I can’t even be, even if, let’s see, let’s see, Carson’s brother loves to have people over to their house and entertain. And there’s always, there’s always tons of food. Not all vegan food, of course, but you know, I’m looking forward to getting back to that, being able to stay up a little bit later, being able to get a special something food-wise, get a vegan pastry, get some vegan ice cream, try and fit it into my more generous macros now.
But mostly, mostly, mostly the relationships and just the social life. I think I’m really, really trying to do that, to focus on that a lot. And just personal endeavors, trying to, I want to start, I want to start a business.
And it’s gonna be a lot, but I need to push myself, I need to keep growing. And I’ve got goals.
[Giacomo:]
Yeah, for sure. The social thing, the finding ways to enjoy food again, in a way where it doesn’t serve your needs is really important. I think that’s something that we often struggle with, with our clients and trying to find that healthy balance, essentially, where you’re able to fuel yourself.
However, you’re also able to make choices where you’re eating, not just like an athlete, but eating like somebody who enjoys eating, for the sake of having dinner with your family, or going out, or like not thinking about how food will serve you. How’s that old saying go? Eat to live, live to eat, etc, etc.
I usually encourage my, my athletes, you’re eating like an athlete, you’re eating to get healthier, this requires you to be different than the standard American diet would dictate, like, this is how you should be eating. And let’s face it, that’s what’s around us. But that being said, I do feel like you can strike a balance where you’re still eating for performance, which is what this episode is about balancing out your macros for performance, while also still being flexible.
But why don’t we walk it back a little bit? And why don’t you tell me what you think balancing out your macros for performance is like the whole reason why we decided to do this topic in the first place today?
[Alice:]
Yeah, I feel like this is a huge conversation that I’m repeatedly having to have with with clients and leads, especially new vegans, newer vegans, who are very excited about, you know, diving into their whole food plant based diet. And they’re on social, they’re looking at all these amazing influencers, showing their meal plans and pictures of their food, how they’re meeting, you know, these crazy high protein goals with like lentils and rice and vegetables. And it’s hard to know how to respond as a coach as a vegan coach, because I realized that there are some unique individuals that can do that.
But you know, I’m not going to point fingers or list names or anything like that. It’s not our style. But just because their whole foods doesn’t mean it’s going to be like an ultra superior food, right?
And there’s just going to be some different things you have to do. And maybe have some more balance in order to just meet those goals, right? Most people are not going to be able to do it.
Most people are not going to be able to, you know, rely on mostly lentils and beans and nuts and seeds as their primary protein source, right? And I know, I know a lot of people are going to be listening to this, they’re going to be like, disbelief, disbelief. How could you be saying that?
Everyone else on the internet is saying you can do it. I understand why you wouldn’t believe it, right? There’s this whole clean eating movement.
We’ve also got, I guess something of like the superfood movement. I don’t know if that’s still like a big thing, but I think it still impacts a lot of us. You know, we talk about the benefits of various fruits and vegetables.
I think there was like a big thing about like acai. And I mean, I’ve heard things about superfoods being anything from like broccoli to blueberries, right? And sure, these foods are amazing, right?
We know that vegetables are amazing. We know that they’re going to be able to like lower our blood sugar levels. They know that it’s going to be full of, you know, healthy fibers, but you know, any fruit and vegetable in some way could be called a superfood.
And that’s not necessarily going to be, there’s not necessarily an equivalent as far as protein is concerned. Lentils are not the magic protein or nuts are not the magic protein that are going to help you reach those goals, unfortunately. So I think ultimately they’re coming up with a lot of that narrative to try and sell something like acai, right?
Whether that be, you know, acai, turmeric. Like I said, I’ve heard people try and push blueberries as a superfood and I looked it up and they’re actually like, there are like supplements around anything. You can get blueberry supplements, anything to avoid like having to eat these things.
I don’t know. I don’t know. People are always trying to sell you something, right?
And you can’t always trust that narrative.
[Giacomo:]
What I like a lot about what you’re talking about is the fact that we are digging right into how health obsessed we become when we’re looking for the perfect answer with what are the most nutritious foods to eat? Or we’re looking for the person who’s on Instagram for inspiration and where we feel like we’re accountable to them. And if they’re doing it, then we can do it right.
Or we should do it this way. And I, it’s, it’s a challenging thing to mimic because let’s face it, when people put things on social media, they’re doing it to paint a picture of what is ideal. And, you know, I don’t fully blame the person who goes out and puts this whole healthy plant-based diet with lentils and beans and nuts and seeds and all this stuff that’s marketed out there for superfoods, like all the healthy stuff that’s marketed out there and the ideal way.
I don’t fully blame the, the narrative that’s out there and the way that people are like, Hey, like you should eat this way or consider making healthier choices because it does encourage you to make healthy choices. And it is important to put that message out there. However, when you see that and you’re looking for guidance and support and inspiration, and you feel like you’re, you’re, you want to model yourself after that person, but when you pull back the curtain and you see that person is eating just like you sometimes, but you feel ashamed, then all of a sudden you have a problem.
Try you have, you have a problem like trying to figure out a way to eat in a bed that’s balanced essentially. Right? So what is, so what is, what do you wind up doing?
Well, you, you lean in on tracking macros, right? And you want to hit your carbs, your fats, and your protein. And you say to yourself, okay, well, I can just be flexible this way.
But I think there’s a bigger problem where you, uh, you wonder like, why can’t you do it? Essentially. That’s what I was getting while you were talking about different ideas that are out there, whether it’s a superfood movement or the vegan athlete who’s out there, who’s like, I eat lentils and beans and nuts and seeds and greens.
And that’s all that I eat. And every once in a while I have a tree, this or that, but this is what I do. Well, and sometimes there are outliers who can do it that way.
Sometimes I’m doing it that way for like a year or two years or more, but, and I do feel like that’s something good to shy for, but it’s not practical for everybody. And it’s not necessarily the approach like that is ideal. Put it that way.
And you can be flexible and you don’t, it’s just, it’s hard. It’s hard because that you see what you see and you’re like, well, why can’t I do it? Right.
So there is definitely a lot. And that’s, that’s what I see when I’m looking at others and having these conversations with people, our clients, right. And they’re like, well, isn’t this what I should be doing?
I’m like, kind of, what are conversations like for you when you are talking to your clients and bringing up these ideas and they’re trying to push for it and they’re just like, I should do this. And part of you I’m guessing is like, well, yeah, you, of course you want to be eating this way, but the other part of you is kind of like, but you know, you’re not going to, right. And you know, even if you are, it’s going to be a struggle, right?
Like how do you broach that conversation with your client?
[Alice:]
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think my clients, I think everyone on the internet is going to think that beans, lentils, nuts, and seeds are like the superfood of a vegan proteins, right. And they want to, they want to be able to rely on those things.
And I think I take it, I take it one, one food at a time. That’s kind of like the taboo foods, you know, first we’ll talk about soy, maybe first I’ll try to get them to try some recipes that, you know, they can start to enjoy tofu for the first time. Right.
Um, giving them, sometimes I give people research, you know, I talk about how all the soy myths have just gone on and on. And, you know, I have to convince people. I have to convince people to try these things, to make things at home.
Um, I’ll talk to them about satan, right. Um, yeah, I think every person definitely needs to have the beans, lentils, nuts, and seeds in their diet. Right.
That’s how the con and the conversation stares that way. Yes, they contain protein, but what people don’t understand is most foods are not made up of only protein. They are also going to contain carbs and fats, right?
So, you know, not they’re, they’re super, they are super foods in the sense that they’re ultra, ultra healthy. Um, a lot of plant-based superfoods are going to be very calorie dense, right? So beans are perfect example of that.
Um, nuts are a perfect example of that. If you’re not, if they’re not calorie dense, then they’re not going to contain like, you know, all the vitamins and minerals that we need. Um, yeah, there’s, there’s so good for you, but let’s, let’s talk about beans first, specifically, you know, beans are primarily a carbohydrate food.
I mean, they’re, they’re super beneficial. They contain so much good fiber for you. Right.
But getting down to like the macros and stuff, like you brought up a half a cup of beans is going to contain like eight grams of protein, 20 grams of carbs, and it’s going to be about 114 calories, right? So that’s more than double the amount of carbohydrates than protein in those beans. And, you know, I recommend that most people get around 25 to 30 grams of protein per meal, right?
At least depending on the person, depending on their, their macros, what I’ve calculated for them, but I’d say that’s about average. So to get 25 grams of protein from beans, you would have to eat 1.6 cups. So that’s, it doesn’t sound like a lot at first, but that shakes out to 390 calories and 68 grams of carbs.
And my average meal at home, you know, I’m trying to eat between 300 and 400 calories. And I’m definitely not, um, you know, just eating beans, you know, so I’m trying to target three to 400, 300 to 450 calories ish and include 25 to 35 grams of protein for myself. And I’m usually targeting 20 to 40 grams of carbs, right?
So I promise that, you know, I’m eating more than just beans for meals, a lot more exciting foods, but yeah, basically if I were to eat all those beans, that would be basically two meals worth of carbs just to meet one sitting of protein goals. I would way overshoot my calories. I would, you know, basically just be blowing my carbs for the day by relying on that.
And if, and if I continued that trend, you know, that would put me in a calorie surplus that would lead to weight gain, right? And a lot of our clients, that’s not their goals. They’re looking to do body recomposition.
They’re looking to lose fat. Um, so let’s talk about nuts real quick. Similarly, I’ll choose peanuts because that’s probably the most popular, right?
They’re probably the best macros as far as nuts are concerned for protein. So that’s why everyone uses peanut butter and yeah. So a half a cup of peanuts, which is way more than a serving, by the way, it’s going to be 414 calories and that’s including 35 grams of fat and 18 grams of protein.
So since that is way more calorie dense than protein, that’s basically like 73% fat, 17% protein, and then a little bit of carbs, 11% carbs. So, you know, that’s basically nuts are primarily a source of healthy fats, right? It’s a very dense food.
I’m not saying don’t include them in your diet, but again, you don’t, you don’t want to rely on that. You don’t want to rely on that for your protein source.
[Giacomo:]
Okay. So let me ask you a question. Are you seeing clients basically fighting the idea of adding in other kinds of foods or fighting the idea that they can get their, getting their protein with those foods only essentially, is that what you’re saying?
Are you dealing with that?
[Alice:]
Mostly? Yeah. And what happened, what happens is, you know, if they don’t, if I don’t, if they don’t initially ask for help, they’ll usually give, they’ll usually try, they’ll usually try on their own and just come back to me in a check-in and say, Hey, I’m definitely going way over trying to reach all this, all these high protein goals.
You know, what do you, what do I do? What, what, what, what are some example meals that I would give you that, yeah, I would give them.
[Giacomo:]
Right. But they want to eat enough of those foods to make sure that they’re getting the nutrients and they want to eat a healthy whole food, plant-based diet. Maybe it’s not necessarily the, so maybe it’s not necessarily tofu or seitan that they are worried about.
However, they also want to get a certain amount of these foods. So I wonder how else would you encourage them to round out their meals while still getting those kinds of foods in?
[Alice:]
Oh, I definitely say, you know, you need to be getting at least a serving of beans a day, just like in our, we always, we always promote that you should be getting at least two servings of non-starchy vegetables per day. So even though it’s not written out necessarily in their macros, you know, making sure you’re including those and fitting them in, especially when we’re in, especially if we’re in a building phase and can easily fit those things. And they are very, very determined to include those things.
But, you know, we want to be flexible. We want to be flexible, but we still want you to meet your goals. So, you know, talking about having to be willing to use protein powder or a vital wheat gluten or soy or powdered nut butters.
Right. And I think people get very afraid of these things because they immediately think they’re, they’re ultra processed foods. They want to avoid processed foods, you know, but I think ultimately these foods, I think for processing, you should be more worried about what’s added into the foods rather than what’s taken out.
Would you agree with that? Like the sugars, like the sugars and the filling, the fillers and the emulsifiers and the thickeners and the coloring. So if someone’s taking out some of the carbs and fats, it’s leaving you with a more protein dense food and you’re able to meet your goals.
Right.
[Giacomo:]
Gotcha. Okay. What, and what I think about with all of those things that get added into foods are, well, let me see when, when food is meant to taste really good.
[Alice:]
Yeah.
[Giacomo:]
And you just wind up wanting, wanting, wanting bigger servings because you’re just not nourishing your body the way that you want to, because I think a certain amount of flexibility is good, but you also don’t. Right. But you also don’t want to go in the exact opposite direction either, which is what we see happen sometimes.
Right. So it’s kind of like finding that middle ground where eating foods that are that scratch and itch, however, they’re not whole food, plant-based nutrient dense foods. We’re also, while also making sure that you’re continuing to try to get well more than 50% of what you get in from a whole food plant-based diet.
I think that’s and feel good about both. I think that’s kind of the healthy way to think about how you’re eating, plan on your meals, enjoy your meals. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to go out to a restaurant that just serves nutrient dense, nutritious food all the time.
Some places you go, you’re going to eat something that’s comforting or whatever.
[Alice:]
Right.
[Giacomo:]
Like what, what do you do then, you know? So yeah. Protein wise.
I have no, I mean, I love vital wheat gluten. I love, I mean, protein powder, all that. I think there’s a need for all that, right.
Whether it’s convenience, whether it’s to make your own, is that maybe what you were getting at with the whole, like when it comes to package proteins versus making your own stuff at home.
[Alice:]
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think when we start making our own foods at home and figuring out what we like, I think we’ll be able to realize, you know, things like you can, you can still be healthy. There can still be balance.
I don’t know, going back to going back to like the influencers, right. That are showing these, their, their meal plans, what they’re able to eat. You know, some of these things you’ll look in, if you actually look in the comments, if you actually look at the questions people are asking, if you actually look at the captions, you know, people say, okay, what exactly are you eating?
If you’re making all these things, your, your, your protein sources and what, what kind of calories are you consuming? And they’ll come back with say, oh yeah, I’m eating 3,300 calories a day, or I’m eating 4,000 calories a day. So my first thought is, okay, you’re definitely male, right.
Because none of my female clients, I wouldn’t be eating that much. Right. And I’m thinking they’re definitely in a build, right.
Because men and women cannot eat that high of calories and stay very, very lean. For the most part, it’s a big calorie surplus for most people. I think I would say in religious, like you said earlier, there’s, there’s some people who can get away with it.
And I think the only people who could get away with it are going to be like your lifelong athletes or people with just like, they’re very genetically lucky in that way. Yes, they exist. A lot of them exist on social media.
Right. And it’s very discouraging for average human being is very discouraging for someone like, I’d say you and me are, don’t fall into that camp, or we could be eating 4000 calories a day and be successful, right. Most of them are lifelong athletes, because they’re able to eat that much.
And they’re able to gain mostly muscle and gain minimal body fat from that nutrition plan. Right.
[Giacomo:]
Yeah, absolutely. Thinking of the perfect outlier would be an ectomorph, who has a low body weight set point naturally, because that’s their genetics. And they are highly metabolically active.
And let’s face it, when it comes to those who we wind up giving more attention to, and those who are attracted to the idea of putting themselves out there in this way, and are rewarded for it. I mean, when you think of that formula, of course, that’s what you’re going to see out there. And then you have this ideal picture of what you and that’s, that’s what that’s the whole idea of social media continues to show you something that’s ideal.
But in all reality, that’s not, it’s not going to work for the majority of people.
[Alice:]
And even if they are an ectomorph, if we’re if we’re totally sold on on, you know, ectomorphs really even existing, at least I have feelings about those terms. But I feel like when most people are talking about ectomorphs, we’re talking about people who have trouble gaining weight, period. And they’re also consequently going to have a hard time gaining muscle, even though maybe their bodies are furnaces, and they can eat all those calories, like, are they really able to efficiently build muscle?
So there’s still like those outliers, even outside of like the ectomorph camps, right?
[Giacomo:]
Yes, absolutely. I have a client like that right now, actually, where it’s not knowledge and not fun, you can’t get on the other side of it. So I totally hear you there as well.
[Alice:]
So, you know, how can we stay sort of minimally processed, still including whole foods, but you know, get 120 grams of protein on average for many women, or what would you say 160 grams of protein for most men, like on average? You know, choosing minimally processed or maybe moderately processed foods with local additives. And I’m a huge fan, an advocate for making your own food, cooking your own food, right?
Because we’re not gonna be able to go out and find that in a restaurant. Good.
[Giacomo:]
No, that’s true. So you say you’re not gonna be able to go out and find that at a restaurant when it comes to making your own foods. What do you mean by that?
[Alice:]
You know, if we’re gonna find, say, even we go to like, Asian restaurant, we’ll have tofu and it’s still gonna be stir fried. And so you’re gonna be getting all of these extra calories that you don’t even see on your plate from that oil that they’re stir fried in, and the breading, and you’re not gonna be able to reach your goals with stuff like that. So learning to make it yourself and learning to make food that you enjoy and fits in your macros is absolutely just required.
[Giacomo:]
And fun.
[Alice:]
I mean, soy, tofu, fava tofu. Have you had any of the big mountain tofu yet?
[Giacomo:]
Stuff. It’s so good. I found it at Hannaford’s.
I was coming home from a float. And I was like, you know what, let me hop into this grocery store. I like grocery store hopping.
It’s fun. It’s a thing. I’m not the only one.
Tell me I’m not the only one.
[Alice:]
No, no, I love it. I’ll literally just pop me and Carson call them grocery store adventures. We’re just going to go and walk up and down aisles and pick Oh, I’ve never seen this before.
Oh, snap. It’s vegan. Let me take a picture of this.
Or let’s go buy this and let’s find out something to make with it. I mean, we did that with the marshmallow fluff even that’s how we ended up making our protein rice crispy treats right with the edamame puffs. So you can get really creative and get lots of ideas just just exploring the grocery store.
[Giacomo:]
I get like tired of the whole the world wasn’t built for vegans or for a plant based diet or for people that want to eat healthy. And then you have this feeling of going without and it’s really sad. It’s really frustrating.
And you kind of feel like a weirdo for packing your own food or making your own stuff. And like, you know what, no, screw that. It’s this is fun.
You get to make your own food, you get to have all kinds of whatever, Indian, Korean, Italian, Spanish, you make these meals at home, you figure out how to do it in a way where you get in the right amount of protein. We have tons of these recipes on our side. I mean, you continue to put a lot of them out on YouTube, right?
It’s fun to be creative and understand how to nourish yourself and to make these. And then the other thing, what I’ve been thinking about, I wonder if your mind on the same thing is that you learn what’s actually in food, when you pay attention to how to make your own plant meats, for example, and how to make sure there’s enough protein on your plate.
[Alice:]
For sure. You know, some other ones that are my favorite, you know, you can find TVP made from soy or from peas these days. That’s another big one.
They’ve taken out some of the fat from from the protein source. And so it’s a lot more macro friendly. It’s great for, you know, like a vegan ground beef type of thing or making like bacon crumbles, right?
Those those are some things I like to make with it. Soy curls, similar, right? I think those are even less processed.
Like they’re pretty much the exact same macros as edamame, right? I think. Of course, seitan.
Seitan is my favorite. And then, you know, if you don’t have the bandwidth to make these things right at first, also trying some like of the cleaner mock meats in the stores. So things like maybe your eat meaty from and it’s made from mushroom protein.
[Giacomo:]
Is it good? I haven’t tried it yet.
[Alice:]
I like it. I like it. And a lot of my clients, that’s their number one go to, especially if they’re gluten free.
Yes. Because they get a lot of soy. And so having the mushroom steak and the mushroom chicken is is just a nice mix up for them.
And it cooks well, I think. Um, Abbott’s Abbott’s is made from pea protein, their stuff. Yeah, yeah.
And then vital wheat gluten. I talk about this all the time. You don’t just have to make seitan with vital wheat gluten.
You can make, you know, protein pancakes can make protein sandwich bread. You can make I’m making protein muffins, like with the same protein pancakes recipe, right? Those are my favorite things.
And then the last thing I’m always telling people about is the protein pastas. I think that’s easy to forget about. You’ve got your red lentil pasta.
You’ve got your banza made from chickpeas. And you’ve got edamame pasta as well. I love the edamame pasta from Aldi.
I know Ramon doesn’t have Aldi, but I think it’s just explore brand rebrand, you know, rebranded for Aldi, right?
[Giacomo:]
Exactly. Yeah. And that’s the thing, especially coming from I was not vegan in my life.
And I would think about protein as a separate thing on my plate. It had to be the chicken or the steak or whatever. And in reality, I wasn’t that just my food.
Well, I wasn’t thinking about the fact that everything has protein in it. And then as a vegan, it took me a while to get to a place where I’m like, I don’t have to force protein on my plate, I can build nice meals that have protein worked right into it, like all the ones that you’re describing that are ideal, delicious work for any kind of common allergens, whether it’s making something nourishing for your family, or something that you have a sensitivity to, or you are straight up allergic to whatever it is, like, there’s just so many options out there. And in one sense, I understand the idea of being the vegan feels isolated, you have to make your food at home to get around our protein. But in another sense, you get to actually learn how to eat yourself and nourish yourself at the same time.
And you get to understand how food is made up. And you wind up having less fear of what’s packaged. It’s crazy how many how much these things repeat over time, it’s been a long time doing this.
And you still get the person who is afraid of the protein, plant based protein source in the package, you get the person who’s afraid of the, the flour or the dried good that is protein that you can make the plant based meal with, you get the person who is still in a place where if they’re not getting in brains, nuts, seeds, in their purest form, they’re doing themselves a disservice. And then you get the person who is on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, because they’re fighting all the dietary dogma. And they’re uncomfortable with their own choices with like, you know what, I’m an IFYM, whatever, maybe they’re in a maybe they’re in a bad place, they got there, they got a bad head, because they’re like, just fighting all the crap that’s out there when in reality, and it’s not the sexiest answer.
But the truth is that the that it’s, it’s the bad, it’s the balance is the thing that is not saleable out there. It’s like, this is how you should be eating right here, normal, healthy and balanced, but balanced doesn’t sell. And she tries to pay in the health industry, we paint these these pictures of what what needs to be, in my opinion, not that isn’t good.
And it’s just, you don’t have to be extreme.
[Alice:]
Yeah. Yeah, you want you want to choose something for your plate that is predominantly protein, but also all the vegetables, you know, all the beans that are going to be like your side items, like don’t stop eating beans, don’t stop eating nuts and nut butters and seeds, but they should be something on the side. It shouldn’t be the focus, they shouldn’t be the choose a food that is predominantly protein.
And all those little things are going to add up, you’re actually just going to find it easier to meet your goals, right? So how do you find like, the best protein foods? Like how do I like shop for foods?
If you look at the nutrition label, you can actually think of it as like a 10 to one ratio. So for every 10 calories, one gram of protein. So basically, like, if you’re looking at something, oh, it’s 250 calories a serving, then you’re looking for something that has about 25 grams of protein, for example, it doesn’t have to be exactly that it can be a little less.
So not every food is going to, you know, shake out perfectly like that macro wise. But that’s just something that’s made it really easy for me to find like, alright, this is going to be good for my athlete goals for continuing to get progress and performance. So easy peasy.
Hopefully, that’s something that everyone can remember. What kind of what are some of your favorite like meals that are very like protein dense?
[Giacomo:]
Some of my favorite meals that are pretty protein dense, I have been very obsessed with the five minute single serving seitan recipe that we have, that is also up on the YouTube channel, you should leave in the show notes. Because it’s simple, it’s convenient, I have to think about it. And I can just make it in a jiffy.
I have the pre mix ready. And I usually round it out with some vegetables, and some some sort of like starchy carb, like beans or lentils, or maybe potato or whatever, because the seitan itself is pretty protein dense. So depending on what I’m eating, I may want to like, focus more on something like potatoes or rice, for example, over say lentils or beans, because I don’t want to get too much protein in a meal that would be.
So if I’m having lentils with beans as a base, then I would then I would maybe have like some morningstar farm chicken chips mixed in with some of my broccoli, or I would have another meal that’s protein dense and just not focus on protein at that particular meal. Like you don’t have to you don’t have to get X amount of protein in with every meal or else, like as long as you’re getting more or less getting any amount of protein, even then you’re fine. It’s not that big of a deal.
I am a big fan of protes. I know it’s people have mixed feelings on them. But I like yeah, protein and oats in the morning.
Or if I’m in a rush, I’ll have a protein shake with some fruit. And if I’m breaking up my meals throughout the day, like trying to get into my training, I’m like, Alright, well, I’m in a rush, like have maybe like a piece of fruit and a protein shake just to go. But what about you?
What are some of your favorite meals?
[Alice:]
Yeah, I also love oatmeal. I can have oatmeal every day of my life and never get tired of it. I go in and out of protes.
So I’ll either have protein powder or these days, I’m more likely to have either a protein bar or maybe a plant based sausage patty or two, because I really enjoy actually having like the breakfasty foods. I love stir fry bowls. Those are great.
And of course, I’m not actually frying them. It’s literally just a bed of vegetables in a giant bowl, usually cooked in the microwave, and topped with some homemade seitan of mine or some tofu or some soy curls. And I’ve either air fried those or put them in the skillet and cook them that way.
And just a little bit of sauce, you know, keep it simple. I like buying pre made sauce that are accidentally vegan and have, you know, minimal ingredients. So that I don’t have to bother with that.
It saves me time in the kitchen. I’m very lazy in the kitchen. So all my recipes are just like, very quick, right?
So making yourself a stir fry bowl, literally veggies and a protein source and a little bit of carb with your sauce. Similarly, a burrito bowl, right? That’s a staple.
That’s a staple. And that’s a great way to get in your beans. Better greens, include your beans include guac, maybe for some healthy fats, and a protein source.
When I’m traveling, like right now, I do a lot of tofurkey sandwiches.
[Giacomo:]
But I’ll also- We’ve all been on the sandwich kicks, you, Danny, me.
[Alice:]
Exactly. Yeah, we were all eating sandwiches in Florida. But I’ll also make my own, I’ll make my own deli slices.
So it’s not always tofurkey, per se. It’s so easy to make. If you guys have not made seitan before, I would really encourage you to do so.
With the five minute seitan recipe, or I love 86 eats website, they have, basically, it’s the same recipe over and over again, just with different seasonings and a little bit different, like ways you prep it to get, you know, your chicken, or your turkey, or your beef, or your pork. All you know, there’s so much variety on there. You don’t need to need you don’t need to need the the dough.
The food processor needs it for you and you put it in the oven. So easy. I can put that in the show notes, too.
I’ll also do some kind of wrap. Sometimes, like I love vegan buffalo chicken wraps, or gyro wraps. Gyros are good, too, because the the tzatziki, making vegan tzatziki, it’s really low calorie.
We’ve got all these, what is it, yogurts. You can make your own vegan yogurt. Vegetable soups, again, like tomato soup with veggies, protein added in there.
Protein spaghetti, if I’m feeling really lazy, getting the edamame pasta and just throwing a little bit of marinara sauce on top. It’s a really easy meal. And then things like mug cakes and protein pancakes for snacks.
That’ll be gluten, usually.
[Giacomo:]
That’ll be what? Gluten, you said?
[Alice:]
With vital wheat gluten, usually.
[Giacomo:]
Gotcha. Okay. Would you would you do protein pancakes at night?
[Alice:]
I only do them at night, because they’re not, if I do it, if I have protein pancakes for breakfast, I don’t find them to be very filling. So they’re more like a treat, like a dessert for me.
[Giacomo:]
So the bottom line here is, it’s not difficult to get in protein sources, to get in protein, enough protein for the day. You don’t have to get something that is just protein and put it on your plate to have a nice meal. There are tons of different kinds of meals that you can have.
And you can find your creature comforts and you go to for a month or three months or for the next week or two weeks, depending on your preference and how you like to eat before you get too bored. And you’re like, I need something different. And, and you can get in a whole food plant based diet that balances out your performance without obsessing over it.
And you can look at what’s out there and say, yes, like this is these are all good ideas. But obviously, know that and take it with a grain of salt, because even the people that are putting that information out there, let’s give them the benefit of doubt for a good reason. Most of them aren’t living like that.
And even those who are living like that, that’s, that’s not exactly easy for the average person, whether you’re a busy parent, whether you have been used to eating a certain way for a long period of time, and you’re just not looking to make that much of a 180, whether you are a very busy person who doesn’t have the time to do that stuff, whether you’re a lazy person in the kitchen by choice, or because cooking is just not something that appeals to you, whatever it is, there, there is an option for you.
And you can absolutely eat like an athlete and not have to do it in a way that’s boring or miserable. And you can learn a whole lot to about food and how to fuel yourself if you keep an open mind rather than being afraid of what you don’t know that’s packaged or that isn’t a bowl of lentils, for example, or like two tablespoons of nut butter with with chopped up apple, like there’s so many other options that are out there for you. Yeah, for sure.
For sure. Yeah. Do you want to talk about what’s ideal in terms of macronutrient ratio and how to how you would program for different kinds of goals?
[Alice:]
We don’t necessarily do ratios, but you know, we start out by calculating the person’s, you know, daily protein amount. And we try to generally keep them lower fat. We don’t know we never typically go below like what, 40 grams, would you say?
And mostly fueling ourselves with carbohydrates. I think a lot of people are afraid of carbs, maybe vegans less so, but carbohydrates are going to be what’s primarily fueling you making sure you’re getting a good pre-workout and post-workout meal, right? With making sure you’re getting, again, that 25 to 35 grams of protein, probably, I don’t know, I’d say 40 or 50 grams of carbs.
Would you agree with that? And keeping that meal low fat?
[Giacomo:]
Yeah, more or less try to favor the carbs, because you’ll be able to get more energy out of them. Whereas the fat, it might be a little harder to get unless, of course, you’re in a calorie surplus. And you just have plenty of energy stores and isn’t quite as important, right?
Right. Right. But, but you’re right.
As far as the formulas and the tried and true principles of programming for nutrition, you’re spot on across the board, right? And of course, there’s some flexibility depending on other priorities, what you have going on and where you’re at as far as with your goals and your process.
[Alice:]
For sure.
[Giacomo:]
Yeah. Sorry.
[Alice:]
It’s for sure. For sure. I think for some people, if they have a really hard time eating low fat, you know, you can absolutely trade some of those carbs so that you can have a more sort of savory diet.
Right. But yeah, I would say most women start out, you know, about 120 grams of protein on average, depends on how your height, right. And probably your age and your goals.
But I’d say 120 is a good like median. And for most men, like 160 grams of protein, if you don’t have a coach, and if you don’t have someone to like calculate these for you, it could be a good starting point, right?
[Giacomo:]
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I do think that those who tend to lean a little more heavily on whole foods, they tend to fear that number.
It’s not possible, or just straight up struggle trying to get like above the hundred line. It’s such a common thing. And with a little bit of support, and belief in yourself, and some and take what we’re taking that approach that, hey, you can consistently get in 120 grams of protein, it will feel good.
And you can still enjoy eating pretty much the way you want to be eating. It’s possible. Like, it’s definitely possible.
You can do that. It really is. And I think that’s where we try to get that.
I mean, that’s just one type of client, you know, you do have all the kinds of clients, but you got to get that protein down. I love that we get a chance to say that now. You know, Alice, 10 years ago, we could not say that.
It would, it would be like a humble brag.
[Alice:]
Getting bulking clients, you mean?
[Giacomo:]
No, it would be a humble brag if your protein was too high as a vegan 10 years ago. But it would be something that you would have put effort into. Because for the most part, vegans, there was just a whole idea like vegans could not, they’d have to work to get enough protein.
I guess we were all learning with what we had access to. We’ve learned so much more over the years now. But nowadays, I think it’s easy to get in more protein than you need to by accident, whether you’re an athlete or not, believe it or not, more so when you’re an athlete, because I do feel like athletes focus on protein more so than the average person.
But that’s, if you’re listening to this podcast, that’s you, right? Yeah.
[Alice:]
Yeah, we’re not talking about the average vegan who’s not trying to, you know, build or maintain the muscle that they’ve, that they’ve worked so hard to achieve, right? It was, we’re talking about athletes and people who with physique goals.
[Giacomo:]
Yeah.
[Alice:]
So this is for you. We do, of course, everyone needs a little bit higher protein. I think the average, average person doesn’t get enough.
So you can, you can take some of these notes and just slowly add a couple of things into your, into your week, into your meal plans and see some benefit there. And maybe even build on build on those skills. If you’re looking to become an athlete.
[Giacomo:]
Yes. And then for men, usually in my professional opinion, I think the number is closer to around like 140, 130-140, when someone is having a hard time getting in more protein. Sure.
Depending on how many calories you have to work with, it’s easier to get that number up, but it can still be a sticking point across the board, whether you’re stuck at like the 131 40 or you’re stuck at like the 9,100 gram mark. And that’s for sure.
[Alice:]
It’s the easiest for women similarly, like a hundred grams. If they have a really hard time start out with a hundred grams on, you know, work your way up. If that’s something that’s a real challenge.
[Giacomo:]
Exactly. So we got how to program macro wise. We got ideas on how to eat balanced, delicious meals, how social media portrays things and how that might distort our opinion of what we can and cannot do and what’s possible and what we want to do and whether or not that’s possible.
We have the whole idea of the health industry and the fitness industry and how that can perpetuate the kind of narrative that we don’t want to mess with us as far as like how we want to be feeling ourselves properly and how we want to be healthy. Is there anything we didn’t cover any final thoughts that you have to share?
[Alice:]
Just that it’s always about balance. I always like to say the 80 20 rule with, you know, as far as including your whole foods in your diet, you want plenty of them. But, you know, if, if we’ve got goals, we’ve got to use foods that are going to help us get to that place, help us reach across that finish line.
Right. So just trying to think of balance. And even if you are say, including 80% whole foods in your diet, like that’s way more than the average person, right.
You’re already doing an amazing job. Think about what foods you can enjoy too, while you’re, while you’re trying to meet these, these nutrition plans. Right.
What else do you, what else do you think?
[Giacomo:]
I think we’ve pretty much covered it all. I hope this episode helps you if you’re watching and or listening, obviously this is what we do. So if you want more support, come join our Muscles by Brussels community and get access to way more recipes than we have on our YouTube channel.
And so much more live calls where instead of being fly on the wall for a podcast, you’re part of the conversation or have a one-on-one conversation. It’s ongoing with the coach here. This is what we do.
We’re here to support you. And I, again, hope that you found this conversation useful. This was a fun one.
I want to thank you all for tuning in. Please stay in touch with us on the socials at Muscles by Brussels at veganproteins and shoot us an email, submit a coaching degree if you have any questions or if you’re interested in one-on-one coaching. Once again, my name is Giacomo.
[Alice:]
I’m Alice.
[Giacomo:]
I’ll talk to you soon.
