Ep 146 – Fixing Your Crappy Sleep

Giacomo:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of vegan proteins. Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Giacomo.

Dani:

And I’m Dani.

Giacomo:

And this is episode 146. We are getting ready for thanksgiving. What are we gonna do for thanksgiving, Dani? I’m not quite sure.

Dani:

We actually don’t know yet.

Giacomo:

I feel like our thanksgiving gets smaller and smaller each year because we’ve become more and more uncompromising about wanting to not be around people who are eating turkey.

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

Well, for a while, we had a fully vegan thanksgiving that was like a lot of family, but I think that also is just kind of the nature of many families. Like, as the kids in the family get older and start having their own families, like, they just change. The holidays just kind of change.

Giacomo:

Are we too judgy, Dani? Are we too. Should we be like, how do you feel? Like, people navigate these kinds of.

Dani:

To each their own. Like, everybody can navigate thanksgiving however they see fit. And, you know, I don’t think a lot of people are in quite the same position that we are, where at least we have each other, and we both don’t. We just don’t want to sit around a dead animal. Like, I don’t know.

That’s the only way I can put it. I understand that other people eat meat, and there’s many times I’m out to dinner with other people who happen to be eating meat, but something about it is just a little bit less weird. It’s like you’re all sitting around a giant dead bird.

Giacomo:

I told my dad, I’m like, he’s like, can I come over and have turkey? I was like, look, we got turkeys in the backyard. You go ahead and bring one of them inside, and we can eat. And he kind of, like, laughed, but I knew he wouldn’t, so. But it’s kind of. I don’t know.

Dani:

What do you mean, though?

Giacomo:

I mean, we have live turkeys that are literally outside. I’m like, you want to come here for thanksgiving? Have turkey. There are turkeys out there. In other words, I’m calling his bluff. Like, he’s not gonna go out.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Giacomo:

Get a turkey and eat it.

Dani:

I get what you’re saying at all.

Giacomo:

What I’m saying is that it’s just. It’s a little uncomfortable navigating family situations is what it is. And to me, when I think about thanksgiving, I think about. And I’m getting a little salty here, but that’s okay, right? All year long, we navigate all kinds of challenging conversations and relationships and interpersonal dynamics in society and this and that as vegan, just being accepting of everyone because it’s about being compassionate.

It’s not being about judging your fellow human. Right. But it’s like that one day where it’s legit about. For a lot of people, it literally is about that dead carcass on the table. Like, you know what? Not today.

Dani:

Yeah, you know what I mean? That’s pretty much it. Cause, like, lots of holidays, people have non vegan food. I mean, we don’t really celebrate a lot of holidays the way a lot of people do in general. But something about thanksgiving, it seems to be about the bird, and I just don’t want want to. Plus, if there ever was a holiday where people think it is just hilarious to just rag on vegans, seriously, it’s thanksgiving.

Giacomo:

So it’s like, I have a sense of humor. It’s a holiday. I’m like, why are you doing this to me? I just want to be with you. That’s why I’m here.

Dani:

I’m so jealous. Athena is like having this friendsgiving, a big vegan friendsgiving. But it’s in New Jersey and we won’t be nearby. But that sounds kind of fun. And I don’t even know what we’re going to do usually. Like, my mom is here, but like, guys, there’s so much to unpack here with my mom. We’ll get into it.

Giacomo:

How do we even.

Dani:

But basically she’s engaged. Yeah, she’s engaged. She has been dating her man for approximately seven weeks. And she’s engaged. So I don’t even know what’s going on. Like, what is life?

Giacomo:

I don’t know what happens to this mother in law. Hello?

Dani:

She won’t. But anyway, we are not talking about thanksgiving today. We’re not talking about my mother beyond that today. But we are talking about sleep today and how to. Or ways to fix a poor sleeping situation. So that is what we are chatting about today.

Giacomo:

Exactly. Well, look, in this day and age, we get so much information overload and we get into all the science behind all the little metrics and this and that. We constantly look for research that is evidence backed and evidence based. And we believe in science. And that means that we tend to attract a lot of conversations and people who are all into nerding out on data, getting as much information as possible and doing things as intelligently as possible.

I get it. But you miss the forest for the trees. If you don’t focus on two basic things, hydration and sleep. Sleep is literally that important. If you’re not sleeping well, it don’t matter what else you’re doing, you’re gonna get subpar results. It’s kind of like that. You know, how people, and I’m sure you might have thought of this one point or another.

I definitely have. It’s like I wanna be rewarded for my efforts. I put x amount of hours in the gym, and I train in a certain way. I wanna look like how I train. People say that all the time. Well, guess what? If you’re putting all that effort in and you’re not sleeping, it’s all for naught.

Dani:

It’s mostly for naught.

Giacomo:

Yeah, not all, but. Exactly. Mostly for naught.

Dani:

Yeah. But it’s such a difficult thing to talk about because some people don’t. A lot of people don’t sleep well. You know, for many years of my life, I didn’t sleep well. And when people would be like, well, sleep is really important, I’d be like, thanks. Can’t fix it. I’m trying. But. So, you know, I do think that even though we’ve hosted podcasts before about the importance of sleep, how sleep is super

important for recovery and

muscle building and even fat loss, it’s certainly important for your mood, et cetera, et cetera, what do you actually do about it? If you are not a good sleeper, what do you do?

Giacomo:

Right? Or if you’re constantly fighting the clock and you’re saying to yourself, it doesn’t matter how efficient I am. There are only so many hours in a day. How am I going to get it all done? Well, look, we run our own business. We’ve been doing it for well over a decade. We get it. I hear you. You are heard. I promise you, it’s still not an excuse.

You still got to find a way to get back that sleep. There may be periods of time where this is intentional or necessary, but you got to find a way to get back to, you cannot run on an empty tank. You cannot pour an empty cup. I mean, you can, but the longer you do it, the worse your health gets and the slower your gains are.

Dani:

Yeah, I can’t do that at all. I can’t. Giacomo, sometimes when we’re in, like, a really busy, stressful time, he will literally forfeit, like, 2 hours of sleep a night to get more accomplished with the time he has. I am physically incapable of doing that. I cannot before you and I miss sleep.

Giacomo:

I used to be like that, and I was convinced that I was just fine. And fortunately, you influenced me, and you were like, dude, like, you should be sleeping more. And I was like, nah. But then eventually it took years of undoing the bad habit of not sleeping enough. But after, like two years straight of working on it, I started to sleep about an hour a day more, on average,

even though I convinced myself I didn’t need to. And then when it started to go in the opposite direction, I felt it, you know? So I hear you, Dani. Sleep is that important?

Dani:

It was crazy. Cause Jakima was like, deliberately not sleeping, but then the instant his head would hit the pillow, he’d be passed out. Whereas I had been in bed at that point for like 2 hours, desperately trying to fall asleep, unable to do so. And then he. So basically, we were both just not getting great sleep, but for very, very different reasons. Like, for Giacomo, it was like a choice for me.

I could not fall asleep. And we still both, even though we’ve improved a lot, we still each lean in those respective directions. Like, you tend to deliberately give up sleep more often. And if I’m having a hard time sleeping, like, that’s why I’m not sleeping. Like, I couldn’t. I couldn’t fall asleep last night like that.

That would be the reason, right?

Giacomo:

So this isn’t like a one size fits all kind of thing?

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Everyone’s sleep hygiene is different on the whole, though, as far as knees are concerned, more is always better than less when it comes to sleeping.

Dani:

Yeah. Also, side note, guys, I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned this on the podcast before. I have a yawning tick.

Giacomo:

oh.

Dani:

I, uh, I get into these, like, patterns where I cannot stop yawning. And it is. It always happens whenever I’m talking about sleep. You could ask almost any one of my clients, they’ve seen me yawn like five times in a check in. Or if I’m talking to them about their sleep, I just can’t stop yawning.

Listen, so right now, I just. Since we started this podcast, I’ve probably yawned twelve times. I have tears streaming down my cheeks because we’re gonna have to be talking about this right now.

Giacomo:

So let’s make a vote over here and tell me which one is worse, Dani’s yawning tick or my spasming tic. Because when I need sleep, I just start convulsing. Like, I literally, I start twitching.

Dani:

It’s a little dramatic.

Giacomo:

It’s like a hypnic jerk of sorts.

Dani:

Yes, it’s a hypnic jerk.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

You know that feeling when you’re falling asleep, where all of a sudden it feels like you’re falling and you sort of jump yourself awake. Giacomo does that at least once a night.

Giacomo:

I would take the yawning thing. I think that’s a little more socially acceptable than just spazzing out.

Dani:

It’s not because everybody thinks I’m tired all the time. They’re just like, oh, you poor thing, honey, you need sleep. I’m like, I’m not even a little bit tired. I just can’t stop yawning, I guess. Anyway, so for those of you who can’t see, just picture that I am just compulsively yawning every time Giacomo’s talking. So, all right, let’s talk about some not great sleeping habits.

I think that is the first thing we should talk about, because some of this, I think, is just sort of built into us, maybe genetically, I don’t know. I’ve had sleep issues since second grade. Literally. I’ve struggled with insomnia since second grade, and I’m happy to say I don’t think I do anymore. It’s like a rare night when I can’t sleep now, but I did for most of my life. I don’t know. Is that genetic? I don’t know.

Was it like anxiety? I don’t know what it was. But then a lot of people, I think, are just deliberately kind of making poor choices that are making sleep much, much harder. Let’s talk about some of those things. I think it’s pretty safe to say that many of the tips we’re going to give you are going to be the opposite of the things that we are about to go through. So what’s one of your poor sleeping habits?

Giacomo:

Well, I’m going to say one that is a little bit debatable. But for me personally, if I eat the second before I go to bed, my body does not like that. I do not sleep soundly. I can still have my head hit the pillow, and then when your head hits the pillow, you can still pass out. If you’re like me. However, kind of similar to what was talking about, like, the sleep is not good. When my last meal is, like, within half an hour of going to bed and it’s big, sleep is usually a little bit off.

Dani:

Yeah, that’s really, really common for a lot of people. If they eat too close. My mom says the same thing. If she eats too close to bed, she’ll have, like, weird dreams or not sleep deeply. A lot of my clients say the same thing, but I do want to point out that there are some people out there that need to eat something right before they go to bed. I’m not saying a big old meal, but they need to eat something before they go to bed, and it will help them sleep better.

Giacomo:

Also depends on where you’re at, too. Like, if you’re in some sort of hard cut, for example, not even if it’s not a competition prep and you’re genuinely hungry, eating a little before bed can actually have the opposite effect and help.

Dani:

Yeah. So you. I think this is a situation where you do really have to know yourself and recognize which one of those things interferes with your sleep or what you’re.

Giacomo:

Eating before you go to bed, too, can matter, right? Like if you’re eating a can of refried beans, for example, as opposed to, say, a handful of pretzels.

Dani:

That’s very specific. Giacomo, why did you say that?

Giacomo:

Let’s just say a couple of days ago, it was not the best night’s sleep, and I immediately regretted that choice many times over.

Dani:

I also regretted your choice that night.

Giacomo:

Sorry.

Dani:

Yeah, you have to know yourself. You know, some people, a lot of people have some sort of acid reflux or gerd going on, and they have to not only be careful about how much they eat before bed, but also what they eat. Because even something as, you know, healthy and good for you, as like tomato sauce, tomatoes in general, that could really mess up their sleep as soon as they start to lie down and go to sleep. So, you know, what you eat, how much you eat, how close to bed you eat, all of that can

definitely interfere with your sleep. So as opposed to some of these other ones, I actually don’t have a blanket piece of advice for this one other than, like, you have to be your own guinea pig, basically, and test things out on yourself to see. Right. I would say along that same line, and something we talked about on the last podcast we did together is alcohol before bed.

Giacomo:

Oh, geez.

Dani:

So many people have a drink at night or with dinner or while they’re watching tv as a way to wind down, but it does interfere with your sleep quality.

Giacomo:

Or in a similar vein, since it’s not taboo as it was ten years ago, if someone is high, whether they’re smoking or it’s an edible or whatever, it helps them fall asleep. But in a similar vein to alcohol, you think that it’s helping your sleep. In reality, while you might seemingly turn off, what is your body doing? And is the sleep good? Is it good quality that matters too? Right? It’s not how many hours you sleep, it’s a quality of the sleep.

Dani:

Right. And the only thing I actually don’t have an answer to the thing about the weed and the THC.

Like, I don’t know how that interferes with your sleep. I’m not sure. I would have to do some research on it, but I assume that it is not great. Like, you know, I do know a lot of people that utilize small, small, small amounts of THC to help them sleep.

But it kind of makes me think that it’s sort of like if you’ve ever taken a Benadryl to help you fall asleep. Like, yes, your body will likely go to sleep faster, but you wake up the next morning still feeling kind of groggy and out of it from the Benadryl in your system. So it’s like, was it worth it?

Giacomo:

All aids are a means to an end. Just like manipulating the amount of melatonin in your system to literally trick your body into thinking it’s darker than it actually is. It would make a lot more sense to be in a dark room, for example, or to work on somehow finding a way to get your head to decompress a little bit. Like meditating for some way to turn off by natural means.

So we’re not sitting here trying to shame aids. Sometimes, though they can. Well, they definitely eventually do more harm than good. But you also got to think about the quality of sleep. In some age, you will have better quality of sleep than others. For example.

Dani:

Yeah, I’ll die on that melatonin Hill.

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Dani:

Another poor sleep habit is keeping an inconsistent sleep schedule. If there’s one thing that I can recommend to my clients, in addition to just, like, get more sleep, I’m also really always trying to sort of push them towards going to bed and waking up at roughly the same time every night. It makes a huge, huge difference when your body actually starts to get into.

Giacomo:

Circadian rhythm of sorts.

Dani:

It’s like a sleep routine. It knows when to get sleepy and like, the body prepares itself for sleep and it knows when to wake up. But a lot of people are like, you know, they’ll. What’s a good example?

Giacomo:

You struggle with this a lot.

Dani:

I know you do.

Giacomo:

No, people in general struggle with the concept of sleep hygiene and being regulated. You can think of discipline, routine with so many things in your life while you’re awake, but for some reason, when it comes to sleeping, that idea kind of goes out the window. I think it’s like that trade off between being awake, being asleep time, and just the discipline between what you do when you wake up and you want to wake up.

If you’re in the middle of the night waking up kind of person to do stuff. I know I’m not alone. I know a lot of people do stuff like that or before you go to bed. It’s like a hard trade off. So you don’t. People seem to have a difficulty grasping the concept of the importance of training your body to be in a routine around sleep.

Dani:

Yeah. A good example is people that sleep in on the weekends, you know, they’re trying to catch up on sleep, which you kind of can’t really catch up on sleep. I mean, rest is good for you, but I. That’s not, it’s just not how your brain processes sleep. So, you know, they know they have to wake up super early Monday through Friday, but also at the end of the night, they don’t want to go to bed, so they’re not getting quite enough sleep Monday through Friday, and they’re like, I’ll just

catch up on the weekends. And it kind of throws your body into a little bit of a tailspin, trying to get back on track come Monday, and you’re going to end up feeling more tired and more rundown, even if you got the same number of hours of sleep as if you. You had slept 7 hours a night every night.

Giacomo:

Right? And no one’s perfect. Right? Generally speaking, when you have a little more time to yourself outside of your normal work grind or whatever grind that you have if you’re not working. Bottom line is that there will be certain days of the week, and typically it’s a Saturday Sunday where you might want to spend a little more time, going to do something, being out a little bit later or waking up a little bit early or whatever it is.

So no one’s saying to have a picture perfect routine, but I do feel like it will help you to set hours that you will typically gravitate back toward and to maintain that pattern for as long as possible, as often as possible. Like said, going to bed at the same time every night, and this.

Dani:

Actually isn’t on my list, but along those same lines, your hours are going to look different than somebody else’s. And, you know, I understand people need to get up for work or they got to get up to take their kids to school or what have you. But I am so tired of seeing people who are not early birds just like, kind of shaming themselves for not being early birds when I.

It does not matter. Like, it doesn’t matter. I’ve never been an early bird a day in my life, and I get just as much done with my day as anybody else, it’s just at, you know, slightly different hours than other people.

Giacomo:

You don’t have to run the same clock as everyone. You just have to find a way to have a giant block of time that you spend sleeping. And even if you’re the type of person who doesn’t have that capability, whether you’re raising a child, whether you work with some kind of weird shipped kind of stuff, like you have to sleep at a hospital and you’re a nurse or whatever, whatever it is, you still have to find a way to get back to a good block of time, whether it’s the middle of the day, middle of

the night, or, you know, that typical time where you’re in bed by around, I don’t know, eight to ten, and

waking up between, like, 538. Like, just because that is the norm doesn’t mean that it’s necessary. It’s just a matter of having the right amount of time spent sleeping.

Dani:

Yeah, I would say over the years, my sleep cycle has gotten much closer to like a quote unquote normal sleep cycle, I would say. I usually sleep from about, I don’t know, 1130 to 730 now, which I guess is kind of close ish to normal, maybe midnight to eight, somewhere in there. But it used to be, you know, like two in the morning till ten in the morning. But I got just as much done then as I do now, too.

And every time I’ve tried to shift it to be earlier, I really believe that our bodies have a preference and they’re just going to kind of always lean in that direction. And I am a big fan of sort of going with my body rather than against it whenever possible. And I’ve always found that to get me better outcomes than the opposite. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Giacomo:

Well, there is that compromise, though, right? Because where your body is best versus what you need to do, there’s that in between place that can be a little bit tricky, where you’re fighting your schedules, so to speak, but there is that in between place that you can find.

Dani:

Yeah, I’m also sorry. I was just gonna say I’m also really lucky because I have always worked jobs that worked with my natural circadian rhythms. You could even say that the jobs themselves shaped my circadian rhythms because I started working so young. Know that’s possible. But anytime I have to, like, wake up early for a flight, which I have to do in two days, I know nobody likes waking up early for a flight, but for me, I don’t know, it seems to be so much more brutal than it seems to

be for other people. I don’t. I wake up nauseous. I wait. I think I’m going to be sick for like several hours after I wake up in the morning. I don’t. But anyway, sorry, I keep going off of the side tangents today.

Giacomo:

That’s okay.

Dani:

Another one that people do is sort of like, ignoring their sleepiness and not going to bed or like, delaying going to bed, you know? And this, I do do this, actually. I’ll be like, you know, jock Mo and I will

sit down on the couch to, like, watch something at the end of the night just to like, wind down right before bed.

And then he passes out on the couch inevitably, every single night. And then I just sit there going, I should go to bed. I should totally go to bed. And I say that to myself sometimes for like, almost 2 hours before I actually get up and go to bed.

Giacomo:

Hmm, interesting.

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Well, I don’t know because I’m fast asleep.

Dani:

I mean, I’m usually still doing stuff. Like, it’s not like I’m just sitting there doing nothing. But I know I should go to bed, and I will, like, push it every night. Luckily, there’s, like, a time where I’m like, no, Dani, get your ass in bed right now. But for years, I didn’t. I could sit there. I could just keep watching the next episode or just start another movie and be like, oh, this movie probably won’t end till one in the morning. It’s okay. No worries.

And just watch it anyway. I did that for years, and I know a lot of people just. Just keep watching the next episode. Netflix is judging you. Are you still there? Stop it. Netflix. Yes, I am still here. And they’re just not going to bed. And then the next day, they feel like trash, and they know exactly why. But this is a. It’s not a good habit to get into. Your body is tired. You ever seen a baby that’s, like, too tired and getting ready to throw.

Giacomo:

A fit, basically, without even realizing it?

Dani:

Little babies that just start throwing fits, and you’re like, what’s wrong with them? And it’s like, they’re just really tired. And it’s like, why don’t they sleep? But they, like, can’t. It’s like they’re so tired that they

now can’t sleep, and they’re just a mess. I think we do that to ourselves as adults also, where we’re too tired to get up and go to bed. So we just lay there and keep doing what we’re doing. And that’s not good sleep hygiene at all.

Giacomo:

So maybe what we’ve said in the past about all kinds of things is setting up a kind of intentional environment with all kinds of cues around your environment that remind you that it’s pretty much time to go to bed. We’re just thinking about the things you do when you usually start to cue yourself to go to bed. Right. Taking care of your nighttime hygiene, for example.

Like, I. I don’t know if this video is out already, but if it’s. I believe it will be my YouTube video on my nighttime routine, probably directly relevant to this podcast episode. It’s coming out this month, so check that out on our YouTube channel. But for me, personally, yeah. Like, a little bit of nighttime hygiene. The lights out. I even go so far as to, like, pull the. The sheets down a little bit. Like, I’m getting ready to tuck myself in. I’m looking at my bed, I’m like, okay,

well, I did that. That means I have to go to bed soon. Stuff like that. Or before you know, you’re about to fall asleep on the couch. If you’re sleeping anywhere before your bed kind of person, whatever it is, like, before it gets there, drag yourself to the bedroom. For example. Dani’s one that she likes to do is she’ll put on the white noise machine before she’s even going to bed. And that’s her cue. It’s like, all right, well, this means it’s bedtime, for example.

Dani:

That’s why you think I do that.

Giacomo:

I was an assumption, yeah. Am I wrong?

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Okay. Why do you do it?

Dani:

Because you’re always already asleep. And I put that on so you don’t hear me banging around in the.

Giacomo:

Bathroom, getting ready for bed, maybe drowning after snoring, perhaps so you don’t have to, like, punch me to stop snoring.

Dani:

Oh, gosh, I do have a white. I have a lot of things that I do to help me sleep, which I’ll talk more about in a little bit. I want to keep talking about bad habits that we all do. Hitting the snooze alarm in the morning too many times. That is a bad sleeping habit. Partially. It goes back to that, like, regular routine, but it also becomes a habit, you know, how many people do you know that?

It’s like, okay, well, I know I have to be up by seven, so I have to set six alarms before that. Cause I know I’m gonna turn them off. Like, just don’t do that. Just don’t do that. You know, easier said than done, especially when that alarm comes really early.

Giacomo:

Well, the more. The good news here is that the more you push for a solid sleeping routine, the better you sleep. The more you sleep, which means you’re in less of a sleep deficit. And then eventually you get to a point where you are, in fact, waking up naturally with enough sleep bank as opposed to all of these funny things that we’re talking about, because they’re

kind of funny. Really funny. And I’m sure you can relate to at least some of these. These things are all happening because there’s not enough sleep in your sleep bank, right?

Dani:

Yep. Let’s see, what else do I have? Caffeine. Too late in the day. You got. This is another one where it’s like, okay, you gotta know yourself. I would say any caffeine after 03:00 p.m. pretty much for everybody is not. It’s going to affect your sleep. But for some people, they need to cut it off. Even earlier than that.

Giacomo:

It’s a straight up formula around the system as far as how long it takes to metabolize. So that’s around. That’s pretty much the magic hour, sometime between two to 330, because any later than that and the caffeine still hasn’t fully metabolized and it’s affecting your quality of sleep. Even if you’re the type to, like, drink some coffee and still pass right out, doesn’t matter.

Dani:

Again, it’s like drinking. It’s like booze. It will still affect your sleep.

Giacomo:

Correct.

Dani:

People always wear that as a strange badge of honor. I can drink a cup of coffee and go to sleep.

Giacomo:

Oh, yeah. And it’s like, is that really a good thing?

Dani:

Oh, boy. Back when I did drink caffeine, I could not have it past, like, one. Maybe I didn’t really like to have it past noon because I knew that it would keep me up at night. I even have to be careful with, like, chocolate in the evening. Cause if I have something that’s, like, too chocolatey, that could keep me up at night. It’s been a long road to not being an insomniac, guys. Let’s see. Taking daytime naps that are too long, or for some people, taking them at all.

Daytime naps can absolutely interrupt your sleep. Funny story. Last night, this is a perfect example of how, like, when you sleep the exact right amount of time, you wake up fully refreshed. So last night I was asleep. I had been asleep for about 20, maybe 30 minutes or so, and Giacomo, in his sleepy state, yanked the pillow out from under my head.

Giacomo:

Prove it. There were no cameras.

Dani:

I didn’t see it didn’t happen and woke me up. But because I had been asleep for, like, the exact right amount of time, I was now wide awake at, like, basically midnight. I was pissed. I. It took everything in my power to not wake him up so he could suffer with me, but I didn’t. Even while I was, like, lying there awake, I was like, oh, yeah. So basically, I just took the perfect length nap in the middle of the night. It took me, like, a solid hour to fall back.

Giacomo:

I’m surprised you aren’t spiteful and, like, pulled my pillow out from underneath me.

Dani:

I mean, it crossed my mind, but I believe it because I’m also not a happy camper. If someone interrupts my sleep, it’s like a running joke in this house. But that’s part of the reason, because if something wakes me up, it is hell for me to fall back asleep, so. But luckily, I don’t wake up very easily, but Jack Ma, like I said, yanked the pillow out from under my head.

Yeah. Taking daytime naps, like, you can take naps. The naps really work well for a lot of people, but they have to be the right length. If they’re too long, they’re probably gonna keep you up at night.

Giacomo:

hmm.

Dani:

So you gotta be careful with that.

Giacomo:

I think the sweet spot is probably, like, under 90 minutes, but preferably like, under 40. In all honesty, like, just enough to, like, get a little bit.

Dani:

I think the science is, like, 20 to 30.

Giacomo:

Exactly.

Dani:

But Giacomo’s a big day napper, but.

Giacomo:

Typically they’re not that. It’s around that time frame again, I’m.

Dani:

Envious of people that can do this. He’s just like, I’m gonna go take a nap. And then he disappears. And five minutes later, I’m like, oh, crap, I forgot to ask Giacomo something. And I go peek my head in, and he’s out. He is out cold. And I’m like, how is that even possible that a human being can do that? Like, isn’t the routine to get in bed? Think about every single thing you did that day. Think about everything you did tomorrow.

Giacomo:

Big ups to a headspace sleep pattern. I don’t know. My coach, who’s constantly talking about sleep. I have no idea. Oh, gosh.

Dani:

So that’s another one. Actually, another bad habit is stressing and worrying, like, while you’re in bed. And it’s like, you know, what is the answer to that? How can you answer that on a podcast to somebody like, oh, just, have you tried not stressing and worrying in bed? But, you know, there are things that you can do. They’re certainly not immediate fixes, but journaling, trying to, like, brain dump before you go to bed, get all the jumbly thoughts in your head out onto paper can

be helpful if you’re the type of person to do this before you go to bed. Having some kind of meditation or relaxation practice can help with this as well. Therapy, obviously, like, long term, can help.

Giacomo:

You not stress personally, because there are times where I like to not be sleeping, but be in bed and getting ready to sleep. I like to set a limit on what I’m going to do, whether I’m not going to read more than ten pages of a book or I’m not going to be on my phone for more than five minutes playing a game where I’m not going to watch more than one episode on tv in bed, like, stuff like that, where I am not quite ready to shut my

eyes. But I know that I’ll be in trouble if I procrastinate. So I go into bed, but I set a limit to what I’m going to do that isn’t just me getting ready to end actually sleeping.

Dani:

Another poor sleep habit is just not having enough physical activity during the day. We don’t think about this as part of our sleep routine, but getting your energy out during the day will help you sleep at night. You got to be careful about this, though, that you’re not doing a lot of high energy activity too close to bed because it can also wake you up right then.

But if you’re getting enough activity during the day, whether that’s steps or actual physical exercise, just moving, you’re gonna sleep better at night. Again, I have to bring it back to kids. Spending so much time with kids these last few years has really been very eye opening to me because they’re so. Kids are very simple. It’s like input, output.

I don’t know, it’s just much clearer to see what’s going on with a child’s body than it is sometimes to see what’s going on with an adult’s body, but with the same. You know, when kids are crappy sleepers, you run them ragged. Like that’s what you do during the day. You’re like, oh, I need them to sleep tonight. We are going to go to every playground in town today.

And you just hit all the playgrounds and you watch them run themselves ragged and they sleep incredibly at night. And I think that people are very similar. If you sit at a desk all day, which I do and Jacob does, if you don’t find a way to get some physical movement outside of that, and that’s consistent, you’re going to have a harder time sleeping.

Your sleep is going to be less deep. So there are other reasons to exercise besides just wanting to look better or build muscle or be leaner, do you want to sleep? All of these things are connected, so making sure you get enough activity will lead to better quality sleep.

Giacomo:

Yeah. Even something as simple as going on, like a 15 minutes walk on your treadmill or outside before it’s time to go to bed, for example. Because sometimes some sorts of activity, like Daniel’s mentioning, like training, for example, it can go either way. Sometimes it’s good that you got your session in and you’re already well trained enough

and you’ll go right to bed. Other times it’ll excite you and you’ll actually wake up in the middle of the night or just not sleep as soundly because your body’s all revved up.

Dani:

Yeah, I know there’s like two times a day that I generally exercise. It’s either 930 or 530. And I know that when I exercise, like do my hard workouts at 530 at night, usually that does kind of keep me up. So I gotta, I prefer to do it earlier in the day, but walking at night, I mean, I could walk for like 2 hours if I had the time at night and I don’t

think that would keep me up. But the stuff that really taxes the central nervous system does keep me up. What’s the biggest bad sleep habit that I would say most people have?

Giacomo:

The biggest badge.

Dani:

Giacomo just had his first yawn.

Giacomo:

Yeah, thanks for that.

Dani:

I’m at like a hundred, but he’s got one, so you better hope my.

Giacomo:

Hypnic jerks are not contagious.

Dani:

Biggest bad sleep habit that you think people have.

Giacomo:

Biggest bad sleep habit that you think.

Dani:

I could have started with it, but I decided to save it.

Giacomo:

I don’t know what.

Dani:

Electronics.

Giacomo:

Oh gosh, yes, electronics.

Dani:

Too close to bed, too brighten.

Giacomo:

Yep.

Dani:

And we all do it like we all do it. Giacomo’s better about it than I am, but I almost don’t know anybody who’s like very good about this. Between the tv, which believe it or not, the tv, of the, of the three big offenders, computer, cell phone, tv, the tv is actually the least bad. So I know we think about like sitting around on our tvs at the end of the night as like this lazy thing to do.

But of the three things that’s the least bad, next, I would say, would be the computer and then the phone. And the reason I think the phone is worse for you than the computer is because the phone is pocket sized. It can go right to bed with you, you know, and that light coming out of the screens tells your brain that it is not nighttime yet. So do not produce the sleep chemicals because the way our brains can tell day from night light and dark, so we need a darker environment for our brains

to start releasing sleepy time hormones and phones and screens and all of that will absolutely interrupt it. Now, there are some workarounds for this. You can set your phone or your screens or whatever to the dimmest setting possible. And I will tell the iPhone users on here I have a hackath. If you are using your phone in bed, which you should not be doing, but if you are using it and you’ve already got it set to the dimmest setting, you take three fingers, you know your pointer,

middle and ring finger, three fingers. You tap on your screen three times. Tap, tap, tap, and a little menu will pop up and it will say filter. And you click filter, and then click low light, and it will, like, cut the brightness even in half from there. And I certainly do that. I do it every single night because I know that I play around on my phone.

Giacomo:

You can take a practice to break the habit as well and get the phone away from you somehow. Plug it in a different corner of the room. Plug it in a different room. Plug in the bathroom. Do whatever you

can to break the habit, because sometimes you have to separate you and the thing that is habit forming from one another because the habit, you have to admit

it, right? Like, free will aside, that habits got control over you, and no one’s immune to bad habits taking control, and you literally got to find a way to break that thing.

Dani:

I would like to break that thing. I would like to break my phone, but unfortunately, I need it for work. Some of my clients wear not just the blue light blocking glasses, which I do recommend in general, especially if you work into the later hours. You should wear blue light blocking glasses just looking at your computer. But I have some clients that wear these.

I don’t even know what they’re called, but they’re like big, honkin red glasses. Like, they filter out kind of all the blue light in the world, and they seem to work very well, actually. So, I mean, they look a little funny, but if they do the job, who cares? So, yeah, the screens, I think, is a really, really big one. I think it interrupts a lot of people’s sleeves.

And I’m just talking about the screen itself. I’m not even talking about how distracting and they are with their notifications and the way it’s pinging you to do this and do that, and it’s pulling your attention in all these different directions when you should be trying to calm your mind before bed. Your phone is doing the opposite of that.

Bo Burnham once said, and I think he nailed it. Like, we can’t fault anybody for, you know, staring at their phone into the wee morning hours, because what do you want to look at? The back of your eyelids or the answer to every question that’s ever been asked in the world? Like, which one sounds more enticing? It’s. It’s ridiculous.

What we have in our fingertips. That’s a different. That’s a different topic for a different day. Giacomo will not let me elaborate on my thoughts about technology on this podcast. If you guys ever want to hear me absolutely go off about technology and its role in our lives and what I think it’s doing to us.

Giacomo:

Have, like, a tech episode.

Dani:

You let me know, because it is a topic that I am so passionate about, but also ironically, so wrapped up in. So I have a lot of feelings about it. You let us know. We’ll do that. Yeah, let’s see. I have other things on my list here as well. I’m trying to, like, I don’t know, prioritize them. Oh, sleeping with pets.

Giacomo:

That’s a tough one. Because you love your pets and they love you.

Dani:

Or kids. You know, you could say kids, too, because a lot of people do sleep with their kids also.

Giacomo:

Very true for the same reason.

Dani:

I mean, certain spouses also, I would say, can be very distracting while you’re trying to sleep. But pets and kids especially, they’re up, they’re down, they flail around, they’re punching you in the face. They can absolutely interrupt your sleep. And you gotta just be mindful of that. I’m not saying kick your kids out of your room or your animals out of your room, but maybe if they’ve been bothering you for several nights and you haven’t gotten a good night’s sleep, maybe you

have a night to yourself here and there. You know what I mean? I think it’s important. I have a client right now. She’s dealing with an elderly, ill cat that is just keeping her up so much that she actually, like, booked a hotel room for herself so that she could get a good night’s sleep for one night because she knew the cat would just, like, yowl outside the door.

Giacomo:

Rent a sleep capsule somewhere or something like that if you have access to it. Anything. Something.

Dani:

Yeah. And then I guess I would also say ignoring actual sleep disorders if you think you have insomnia, if you think you might have sleep apnea. So many people have sleep apnea and have no idea that they have it. Or narcolepsy or restless leg syndrome or anything like that. You should probably go get a sleep.

Giacomo:

Study done or COPD, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Dani:

It’s not worth just trying to, I mean, do all the stuff I’m talking about. It’s good for everybody. But there may be better solutions if someone has an actual sleeping condition. So. Okay. We talked about all of the bad things. We did throw some tips in there, but we should talk about any other tips that people could actually employ to have better sleeping patterns, because this is a super tough one to talk about because so much of our sleep is out of our control.

Giacomo:

I forget the reason behind it, but I remember reading that taking a hot bath affects your body temperature, re regulates it somehow, and then afterwards, you’re more likely to sleep soundly. I forget exactly why.

Dani:

Team bath.

Giacomo:

Checking in over here, but taking a hot bath. Something about taking a hot bath.

Dani:

Yes, it, uh, it restricts so your. It raises your body temperature, obviously, while you’re in the tub, and then when you get out, your blood vessels restrict because you cool off pretty rapidly and that helps you sleep.

Giacomo:

Or when it comes to temperature, keeping a cold room.

Dani:

A cool room.

Giacomo:

Cool room. Not freezing, but just a touch more, just a little bit. Just a touch more cold than you would normally keep. It can help you sleep soundly.

Dani:

And definitely the darker the room, the better, for all the reasons that I mentioned before about your brain needing it to be dark in order to release the proper chemicals. So we are big fans of blackout shades or blackouthenne curtains for bedrooms specifically. Let’s see.

Giacomo:

Cool room, gravity blankets, dark room. Never tried them, but I hear they work well, I cannot see them. Like a weighted blanket?

Dani:

Yeah, yeah, I believe so. Those were actually, I believe, created for neurodivergent children of all kinds, and especially kids with autism, because a lot of times the pressure can help them calm down. Actually, I had a friend that was a special education teacher and camp counselor and they had these, like, weighted vests for some of the kids who were.

Some of the kids who were particularly anxious to, like, wear a weighted vest because it kind of like, simulated a hug. So I don’t know. I have no idea if it helps you sleep, though. I thought about getting weighted blankets for the kids, but I haven’t actually tried it. I just lie on top of them until they fall asleep. Just kidding.

Giacomo:

I.

Dani:

But yeah, your sleeping environment is really important. And decide also what kind of noise or lack of noise you need when you are sleeping. So Giacomo and I actually disagree on this one quite a bit. He is a silence guy all the way, and I am a white noise gal.

Giacomo:

You like us. It’s nothing that you need loud noise. It’s that you prefer steady noise. Yes. You like the static to be in your environment, to be very stable. You don’t like the variances of noise.

Dani:

Yeah, we live literally maybe 100ft from the highway, like a major highway. I’m sit as we speak, I am

looking out the window, watching the cars on the highway. And sometimes that’s pretty loud, actually. And sometimes someone goes by with their radio blaring or an 18 wheeler goes by or someone leans on their horn, and that would keep me up like that.

I would wake up so many times in the night if I could hear that, but I can’t hear it at all with the white noise machine on. My mom, her bedroom is upstairs. I don’t like white noise, is what she’d say. And then she’d complain about how the cars kept her up all night. And I’d be like, well, try white noise. And she’s always like, oh, no, did the kids wake you up?

And I’m like, nope, they did not, because I can’t hear anything because of the white noise. And also, we travel a lot, and we didn’t even touch on this. I think if anybody travels a lot, they really need to nail down what they need to sleep well. So I have a white noise machine, but when we travel, I have a white noise app that I use on my phone in the room, you know, eye mask.

I bring a heating pad with me everywhere we go because I can’t sleep if it’s too cold. I get cold very easily. So things like that, that I just know that personally, I will sleep better if I have these things. And I would encourage everybody to kind of create their best sleeping environment. And, you know, smell can help.

Giacomo:

Aromatherapy, stuff like that’s known to be soothing. Like lavender, for example. You could throw a little bit on the. You could. Do you have sheet sprays, for example, like a lavender spray or something like that, or they even have little pouches that you can put underneath your pillow, or if you have some sort of aroma diffuser. That’s another good idea.

Dani:

And I said I would talk about melatonin because I mentioned I’ve been an insomniac for literally as long as I can remember, probably since I was six years old or something. And unfortunately, I was medicated at six years old with diphenhydramine, which is basically just Benadryl. But I was given Benadryl, like, every night of my life as a small child, and it took me a long time to be able to fall asleep without that.

Now I absolutely hate it. But since then, I’ve tried a lot of different things to help me fall asleep. Why am I forgetting the name of it? Valerian root. I’ve tried Valerian root, which is the worst smelling thing on earth. That did nothing for me. Five HTP, St. John’s wort, and melatonin, which is the hormone that your brain produces when it is dark.

But all of the melatonin that I tried over the years was, like, five milligrams or ten milligrams. And not only did it not help me, I actually felt like sometimes my sleep was worse after using it. But recently I started, I would say, like six months ago, I started using these melatonin gummies that were made for children that had 1 melatonin in it.

And I would take it 20 minutes or so before I wanted to be asleep. And, you know, could be the

placebo effect that’s fully possible. But I feel like it helped me just fall asleep in what felt like the most natural way possible. So much that now I almost feel like I have to recommend people at least try it.

Giacomo:

Well, you’re taking something that is known to artificially trigger you into a sleep routine sleep cycle. You’re taking it in a fashion where it’s microdosed and you’re retraining your neural pathways and your pattern behavior, that some of it is probably largely out of your control at this point, regardless of where it came from, and it’s that much harder to undo, but it’s not impossible. So this is a situation where you can take a quote unquote sleep aid that arguably is

nothing viable, truly beneficial long term, and if you need it, you need it. However, in the short, you can do it. Get to a healthy place and then see what happens without it. Or just like, enjoy the fact that you’re literally retraining your body because you can. And there’s nothing wrong with a supplement that can potentially do that for you. You don’t have to try to do it on your own all the time.

Dani:

Yeah, it really. I think it’s wonderful. I don’t feel groggy even a teeny tiny bit the next. It doesn’t feel like I actually took anything at all. It feels like I just fell asleep naturally. Now, it’s worth mentioning that I’m also doing all of the other stuff. Dark room, white noise, no screens. Like, that’s when I was taking it. So I don’t think it was just like, oh, I found this magic pill that made me fall asleep.

Well, I don’t think that at all is 1 melatonin. So I just think most melatonin in the stores is way, way, way overdosed. And, you know, I would say I probably took it for like, three months or so, and I haven’t taken it in a couple of months because I haven’t needed to, because I’m just falling asleep at the same time. Now, if I was traveling, I would take it with me, especially if I was traveling in between time zones, I would take it with me.

So, you know, I’m not a big supplement pusher or anything like that, but I do think that that has been very helpful for me. Let’s see some other tips. Well, we’re kind of touching upon it quite a bit, but that’s to create a bedtime routine for yourself.

Giacomo:

Creating a bedtime routine for yourself where, you know all the things you’re going to do that surround you. Going to bed can make it so that you’re more likely to do the thing like anything else. The more that you push for something, the more punishing it would be to not do the thing. And also, the more likely you are to do the thing. Just like getting your clothes ready and wearing them to go to the gym.

Like, if you don’t go to the gym, you kind of. Kind of feel stupid that you’re wearing gym clothing. Plus, it’s going to be easier to get to the gym. Same thing applies for going to bed, right? Have a bed that is ready for you, like, exam. I know it sounds silly, but for me, like, I literally pull the fold off on my bed and it tells me it’s bedtime. I got my face washed, my teeth brush, I got my pajamas on.

Like, for all intended purposes, it’s time to go to bed. Like, if I’m not going to bed, shame on me, what am I doing walking around? Like, I should be sleeping and I’m not going to bed. So, like said, whatever that means to you, find some sort of routine around sleep and do it about an hour before it’s time to go to bed, and you’re more likely to go to bed.

Dani:

See, my whole bedtime routine or whatever, it’s literally only like the 20 minutes before I actually go to bed. Like, I don’t do it an hour before. That’s what I do to get in bed. I could literally write it down step by step, the exact order that I do everything in. But it could be different for somebody else, and it’s also morphed and changed over my lifetime.

There was a period where I did need to brain dump everything before I went to bed, or I was just going to lie there and think about a million things. Now I don’t have to do that anymore, but for somebody else, that might be helpful. There was a time where I did, like, five minutes of, like, deep breathing meditation stuff before I went to bed. I don’t do that anymore because I don’t need it to help me fall asleep anymore.

But somebody listening might need that another tip beyond the bedtime routine would be to make sure you get daylight during the day. Like get some light. The same way you don’t want to have lights in your face at night. You do want to have lights in your face during the day.

Giacomo:

And if it’s the time of the year, like we’re approaching now over here in the northwestern hemisphere, and there’s not a lot of light, maybe get some artificial light, like, what do you call the. What am I spacing?

Dani:

Daylight. The daylight things.

Giacomo:

What is that thing called? I forget. It’s a light therapy box. Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. Throw some of that in just to make sure you get some daylight.

Dani:

I have a couple of clients that have one of those, like, sleep to wake alarm clocks that mimics a sunrise. And I forget the company that makes it, but they really, really like it. I haven’t tried it again because I feel like knock on wooden. I don’t have any sleep issues anymore other than, you know, the

occasional ones that most people have. But that could absolutely be worth looking into as well. And then, of course, limiting naps like we talked about earlier, making sure that if

you’re going to take a nap, it’s not too late in the day and it’s not too long, set a timer for yourself and wake up when it goes off. I forget who it was. I don’t remember if it was Einstein or Benjamin Franklin or somebody in that vein used to famously take naps. They’d hold their keys in their hand and hold their arm off the side of the bed or the sofa or whatever.

Giacomo:

Was that Einstein?

Dani:

I don’t. I think so.

Giacomo:

I think so.

Dani:

Maybe it was Einstein.

Giacomo:

Yeah, but I’m recalling it from a Stephen Hawkins book where they talked about that. I believe it is him.

Dani:

When the keys hit the floor, like when he finally fell asleep and dropped the keys, that’s when he would get up.

Giacomo:

Speaking about books, this was a game changer for me. Several of our clients had recommended it, and I read it and I was just floored by the information. And it still rings true today. Like, I think about a lot of sleep by Matthew Walker, who has a PhD and he specializes in neuroscience and psychology, human sleep science, specifically at the University of California and Berkeley.

So this person is obviously well researched. And this is a recently published book. It’s about five years old, but it is, it’s a good one. So highly recommend it. Why we sleep. Matthew Walker.

Dani:

All right, moving on to our question and answer segment. Here we go. Giacomo, any advice for someone who hates protein shakes. I’ve tried three different brands. Vegans. My protein and protein works. All of them make me gag and I feel nauseous for hours after the taste, the aftertaste texture. I want to try clear protein, but it’s much more expensive.

Giacomo:

If cost is a factor to you and you want to do a little bit of experimenting with flavors and textures, you can try a site like true nutrition, and you can even use our code for 10% off. Vegan proteins bulk and you can mix the blends, whether it’s rice or pee or other plant based protein blend. You can mix the flavorings, whether it’s artificial or natural, and you can throw other things in it too.

That way it’s not just protein that might help. You can also experiment with making different kinds of smoothies. I find that banana mixes up really well and it really helps to soften the intensity of protein powder. And it makes it a lot more smooth and a lot more palatable. Banana is a really good option. You can mix other things inside of it. You don’t have to have a protein shake. Just because it’s protein powder doesn’t mean you have to have a protein shake. You can bake with

protein. For example, you can make protein pancakes. You can make your own protein bars out of protein powder. You’d be surprised what you could do with it. You go and you sign up for a muscles by Brussels membership and you have access to almost 200. Or is it 200 plus now, Dani? 200 plus recipes. And I would say a considerable amount of the protein. Of the recipes that you have access to on our site utilize protein powder. And many of them not in the form of.

Dani:

I don’t think that many of them do. I mean, we have recipes that utilize protein powder, but I wouldn’t say it’s most or it’s not even most. It’s not even close.

Giacomo:

No, but it’s more than a handful of recipes, for sure. And they’re not necessarily protein shakes.

Dani:

Well, here’s how I know they don’t utilize that much protein. Because I’m going to add to this answer. You don’t need to have protein shakes. You don’t have that protein powder at all?

Giacomo:

No.

Dani:

Like, protein powder is really convenient and a lot of people like it. But guess who else hates protein shakes? This girl. I don’t like them at all. I don’t like most protein powder. It’s very rare. I find one that I do like, but I’m able to hit my protein goals without them completely by eating just high protein food. So that’s an option as well.

Giacomo:

This one’s for you, Dani. I need help. My ten year old competitive swimmer needs more protein to stay competitive. He’s 107 pounds, works out 2 hours a day, every day except the weekends. What type of protein do you suggest, how often and in what quantities? It’s painful to see him compete against meat eaters.

He has the drive, but he’s not performing to his best potential. I cook all the meals. Tofu is not his favorite protein and I don’t want to fill him with vegan junk processed food, but maybe that’s my only option.

Dani:

Yeah, this is an interesting question. So I actually would say, you know, there’s a lot of reasons why a ten year old swimmer might not be performing as well as their peers. But if we’re looking at nutrition, specifically a ten year old, that’s 100, that actually says twelve year old. A twelve year old that is 107 pounds, that works out for 2 hours a day, five days a week.

Needs calories. Needs calories in a major, major way. And as long as they’re eating a variety of foods, if this kid is eating enough calories, they’re probably going to be getting enough protein. I don’t say that that’s not true of a lot of people. You know, for many women especially, I would say you do have to pay very close attention to making sure you’re getting enough protein.

But a twelve year old kidde who’s working out that much probably needs close to like 3000 calories a day is my guess. And if they’re, as long as they’re eating more than just like white rice and bananas, they’re probably going to get enough protein. But as far as like avoiding, what was the quote, vegan junk processed food. Every time I hear that saying, it like hurts my heart because there’s so many things out there that a lot of people consider to be vegan junk processed food that

actually is not. It’s actually kind of great for the goals that certain people have. So don’t be too judgy that just because something comes in a package that it’s junk, that may not be the case. I would check out if he doesn’t like tofu, but you’re looking for something that is particularly protein dense,

maybe look at the daring chicken that’s out there.

I’m pretty happy with the ingredients in that particular, in that particular product. Seitan. You can make seitan at your house if you’re very concerned about what goes in. It is super protein dense and it goes in pretty much any savory dish, you can just add chopped up seitan to it. But again, I don’t think protein is the main concern here.

Calories, calories, calories. Especially at that age. A lot of kids don’t like to, to eat very much. So nut butters, making your own energy bars. Note, I didn’t say protein bars, energy bars just loaded with calories using lots of high calorie sauces, like a high calorie peanut sauce that they can dip veggies in or put on their noodles or what have you. Smoothies, like giacomo said, with lots of dates and bananas. And if you want to sneak some protein powder in there, you

absolutely can. Soy milk, nuts and seeds. Nut butters, you can add oats, you could add beans. Like, I would actually encourage a parent in this position to actually try to keep track of how many calories the kid is eating for a couple of days just to make sure they’re at least in the ballpark. And if they’re not, work on just getting that up, then you can focus on the protein.

Giacomo:

And I feel like the other challenge here is that they’re likely catching flak from coaches and they’re perhaps feeling pressure from other students who are judging them, and maybe they’re eating better than they probably realize. And it’s just a matter of dealing with the uncomfortable feelings that wind up being a direct result of people just not understanding what plant based vegan athletes can do and how they eat. So that’s a little challenging, too.

So go ahead and send them to plantbuilt.com, for example. And you can see all of the shining examples of strong, highly accomplished, powerful athletes, some of the most powerful, competitive athletes in the world who are highly accomplished, for example. So maybe give them a little bit of social proof and a little more inspiration out there, because I would imagine that’s part of it.

Dani:

All right, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of vegan proteins muscles by Brussels Radio. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the show, be sure to send them to us@coacheganproteins.com. and if you’re looking for any kind of one on one coaching, absolutely custom bespoke coaching, go to veganproteins.com, comma, fill out a coaching

application and you will hear back from us right away. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Once again, thanks so much for tuning in. My name is Dani.

Giacomo:

And I’m Jaquel.

Dani:

And we will talk to you soon.