Ep 165 – The Scam of Online Coaching? (Interview with Wendy Sellers)

Dani:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of vegan proteins muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is and this is episode 165. Well, hey, everybody. Welcome back. So we have a real treat for you today. It’s something we’ve never done before. We actually have a podcast interview with one of our clients. She is a fantastic client.

She has been in vegan proteins sphere since 2019, and she has a really interesting story. Wendy Sellers is a meteorologist with the National Weather Service. She’s been vegan for five years and I’m really looking forward to her telling her story to you. One of the things that we wanted to talk about, one of the things that people say to me a lot is, what the hell is online coaching?

Because it doesn’t make sense to a lot of people. How can you train someone in the gym but online? And that’s not really what online coaching is. Yes, we certainly write workouts for people. We go over all things pertaining to workouts, but it is so much more than workouts. And I really think that Wendy’s story and her journey helps to illustrate that and explains why it could be valuable to somebody beyond just a workout or a nutrition plan.

Because anybody can look up a workout plan that will work. Anybody can google a nutrition plan that if you follow it, it’s going to work. So why aren’t people doing it? Why isn’t everybody just super successful with their nutrition, their fitness, their physiques, all of their performance goals? Why? Because there’s a missing. And I feel like with regular in person personal training, most of the time, you’re not really getting that piece.

In person personal training. Let’s say you see somebody twice a week or even three times, like three times a week, you see them for 3 hours. That’s 3 hours out of your week that they’re with you. What about all of the other hours? What about your nutrition? How closely are they looking at, are they looking at your measurements and pictures every single week to see where you’re progressing?

Are they talking to you about exactly where your mindset is and what sort of challenges you have coming up this weekend and how to deal with those challenges and coming up with a plan for you? I guarantee you there’s some personal trainers out there that do offer this level of support to their clients, but most of them do not. And that is something that online coaching can do, that in person coaching cannot.

Anyway, I do want to say that I’m putting a trigger warning on this episode. So if anybody is triggered by talks of disordered eating, eating disorders, calorie numbers restriction, anything like that. This is probably not going to be the episode for you, and you are not going to hurt my feelings if you skip this episode. Protect yourself. If you need to skip it, go ahead and skip it, because there is a lot of talk about eating disorders in this episode, but if you are able to listen

to it, I think it is a very inspiring story. That’s, that’s worth the listen. So without further ado, introducing Wendy. All right, well, thank you so much for being here, Wendy. We are really excited to have you in the. This is going to be the 10th year of the podcast, actually, which is crazy, but we have never had like, a client on the podcast ever, so you are the first one. So welcome to.

Wendy:

Thank you. I’m very honored to be here and be your first client interview.

Dani:

Yeah, I think you’re kind of perfect for this conversation for many reasons, actually. So one of the things we’re talking about is kind of like a question that we get a lot about what the heck even is online coaching? Like, how could somebody possibly coach me in the gym? But online, what is the value of that? Why don’t I just get a personal trainer, like, in the gym?

And you have been with us in some capacity for like, close to five years now, and you’ve done like, all of the programs that we have. And I just, I thought it would be very interesting to hear kind of your take on it. So before we get into it, why don’t you tell. Tell our listeners, like, a little bit about yourself.

Wendy:

Sure. So just basically, I’m not afraid to say my age. I will be turning 45 in May. I am a meteorologist, actually, with the National Weather Service. I do a lot of research to operations work now, but I did do some forecasting earlier. So I am a scientist by heart and I have, you know, interests and various things, but I’ve always been fascinated by fitness and nutrition for some

good reasons and for some bad reasons. I have a fiance. I’m getting married in June. So I’m getting married to my fiance mark in June, and we live here in the DC area with our cat.

Dani:

Awesome. Awesome. So, first of all, congratulations. Very excited for the upcoming wedding. How long have you been vegan? I think. Tell us a little bit about your vegan story, I guess.

Wendy:

Yeah, sure. So it’s kind of funny. If somebody had told me, I guess I have to say, like seven to ten years ago, that I would be vegan, I would have laughed in their face. I never, ever thought that that was going to be my journey. And then just kind of out of nowhere, I got a book in late January of 2019 called the green print. And I read it and I decided the next day that I was going to go vegan.

So my vegan anniversary is February 1, 2019. So I am five years vegan now. And I kind of was one of these. I know a lot of people, they tend to do, like, omnivore, then vegetarian for a little while, and then they go vegan. And I just kind of went straight vegan all in. And then another kind of interesting piece is I get asked a lot of times, like, oh, why did you become vegan? And I mentioned that I’m a meteorologist, so environmental science is one of my passions.

So one of the driving motivations for me to become vegan was really the environmental impacts piece a little bit with the health. I know there’s no silver bullet with any kind of way of eating. But then the animal welfare piece came just a few months later, and that’s really solidified my resolve to be a lifetime vegan.

Dani:

That one sneaks up on a lot of people. It’s weird. It’s like once you see it, you cannot unsee it.

Wendy:

Yes. I tell people that if you become vegan because of the environmental reasons or the health reasons, there’s always that option to just have a little bit, and it’s not going to really, you know, make a big difference. Just a little bite here, bite there. There’s not going to, like, make or break the environmental impacts.

But when you get into that animal welfare piece, like, there is no just little taste here and there. Like, it becomes an ingrained part of your moral values. And so that’s one of the reasons why, like, it’s just not an option for me to ever go back to eating animal products.

Dani:

I feel the exact same way. People are like, oh, how do you avoid, how do you resist the temptation of this or that dessert at a party? And I’m like, cause it’s just like, not food to me anymore. I don’t. I mean, it looks delicious, right? Like, if it was vegan, then we’d have a problem. But because it’s not, I don’t know, doesn’t do anything for me.

Wendy:

We talked about that just like two weeks ago. I was in a situation where, like, all day I was, I was going to a restaurant and then I was going to a friend’s party and I had forgotten my vegan snacks. And I was so mad at myself. I was like, how could I forget my vegan food? I’m going to be starving all day. And that was like, the little light bulb moment of like. Yeah, but, like, eating the non vegan food at the restaurant or my friend’s house, it just wasn’t even an option.

Like, I was pretty much like, you know, you know, understanding of the point that, like, I was just going to go hungry. Like, because that, like, it’s not food to me anymore. Even though, like, you said that it smells like it, it even kind of looks like it. I think you related it to, like, looking at plastic fruit or something in a bowl. It kind of looks like food, but you’re not going to put it in your mouth like it’s tasty.

Dani:

Yes. Yes, exactly. Well, we’re psyched that you’re vegan, and I like that you’re vegan for all of the reasons, really. I think the super interesting thing to me and probably to our audience is kind of some of your history with exercise, with food, with your body.

And, I mean, this is a really, like, this is a huge topic. Right. And how it was and how it sort of morphed over time. So I’m not going to share anything that you are not going to share. So I will let you say whatever you want on this topic.

Wendy:

Yeah. So my friends will understand that I’m a complete open book. I’ve always been a believer, especially just kind of just going through some of the stuff that I’ve gone through, that being honest about your struggles and challenges helps you connect to other people and helps other people feel a little bit more connected in the world as well, especially if they are facing the same challenges.

So I don’t mind being very upfront. Actually consider it, like, a wonderful opportunity because this is, you know, I’ve been dealing with body image and food issues for the better part of, you know, 25 years. And I’ve always wanted to be able to, you know, provide some kind of support or outreach to those that have been through it as well. So it’s actually kind of a nice opportunity to be able to talk a little bit about it.

I haven’t really had that chance before. So for me, my, I never really had body image issues until I went into college. I never exercised or was into sports. When I was a kid, I was just kind of naturally skinny. I was, you know, wasn’t really interested in competitive sports or athletics, but I just had a skinny body. I have dealt with, like, generalized anxiety since I was a kid.

And so when I was in school, a lot of, like, my anxiety meant that I had kind of like a nervous stomach and everything. And so that kind of kept me from really caring about food very much or, you know, having to worry about weight issues or anything because I just kind of stayed small because I just didn’t eat much, especially when I was in social situations or out in public.

But when I got into college, like, my whole world opened up and I got a, you know, I actually kind of really got happy and more comfortable. And I met, like, a lot of people and was having a great time my first year of college, and I gained the freshman 25, and it was like the first time for me. And I want to, you know, I was 1819 years old that my body had really changed.

And it was the first time that I ever had to kind of sit there and think about, like, oh, okay, so I’m having to buy different clothes and, you know, what am I going to, you know, you know, how am I going to kind of deal with this situation? Because I’ve never exercised, never even thought about food. And so I started working out a little bit in college during one of my summer breaks, just kind of simple jogging.

I mean, I couldn’t even jog one lap at that point, and I started working it up and to being able to jog a little bit further. And when the next semester started, one of my classmates commented on how much weight I had lost. And that was, like, the trigger that, you know, there’s a lot of, when I think about, like, what drives, you know, eating disorders, I think there’s a lot. There’s, you know, social, cultural pressures, but then there’s also control issues and everything.

And so my second year of college was really stressful with classes. And so I think just a lot came together in that I kind of started to have, like, a white knuckle grip on my eating and my exercising to maintain that weight loss that I had after my freshman year. And it really spiraled out of control. So as school got more stressful, like, the disordered eating behaviors got, you know, got more out of control as well.

Dani:

And you would say this sort of like, leans into the restriction side and the over exercising side.

Wendy:

Yes. Yes, definitely. So I was. I was anorexic. That was basically where I was at. And this was, you know, by my sophomore year, I had, you know, dropped the 25 pounds plus, and I did it fairly quickly. And then it became a bit of, like, an obsessive thing where I was very controlling over my food.

I mean, I doubt I was consuming more than 500 calories a day. So it was interesting because I had never really thought about eating disorders known anybody really with an eating disorder. And so I really didn’t kind of think about what was going on. It almost took like a year to kind of hit.

Dani:

Isn’t it wild? Like, I always think this is really wild. You don’t have to know anything about eating disorders. They just happen sometimes. And it really, I feel like, requires the perfect storm for it to happen. Like, it, it has to be. So many factors come together and then you said, like, a trigger moment on top of it.

But it’s just crazy. It’s not like, oh, you hear about somebody doing something and then, oh, I’m going to try that, too. Sometimes it’s just like, it’s just the human psyche and the way we’re all, like, so different, but so the same is really fascinating to me. That’s all. I’m sorry. Continue.

Wendy:

No, no, absolutely. And I think that’s what’s interesting, because when I, you know, when I hear stories about women that have had issues with disordered eating, there’s a lot of different. I mean, some of the women struggled with their weight when they were younger and got criticized for their body, and that was their trigger for an eating disorder.

For me, nobody had ever commented on my body. It really became this pursuit of perfection and control that drove mine with that trigger moment of that one comment on my weight loss.

Dani:

So, you know, so when did you realize, like, this was an issue? When did you figure out this was a problem?

Wendy:

I started to have dizzy spells when I was sitting down. And I kind of knew that, like, I was using this as a tool for coping with my anxiety. But it was really when some of the physical aspects started showing up and I would be in class or behind the computer, and I would kind of feel like I was going to start to black out and that. And I had, after a year or so, when somebody is going through anorexia, or at least for me, you can’t have a social life, everything changes.

And so I was pulling away from a lot of people. I was not doing a lot of the typical things that people would do in college, like go to parties and, you know, go out to eat and all that stuff. So I kind of started pulling away. And I had some friends. Like, I had moments even going into grad school because this was a full college experience for me that had, like, interventions for me to get better.

Like, there was a one day that my boyfriend at the time and two of my friends, like, ceremoniously threw my scale in the dumpster outside of our apartments. Yeah. So I think it was a combination of me kind of, like, realizing that I was having some physical side effects and, like, my friends and family starting to really worry about me because of just how I was pulling away.

Dani:

Well, that’s really awesome that you had those people around that noticed and cared enough to do anything about it, really. Of course, other people can’t fix it. Right. You have to decide you want to change. So was it shortly after there that you started making an effort to improve? I guess, for lack of a better word?

Wendy:

Yeah. I mean, it really. I still struggled quite a bit through grad school. I think the moment where I really felt like I turned the corner was actually after I got my master’s degree, I moved out to California, started my whole life over again. And I had, like, some amazing friends. I was starting to make amazing friends in California. I was making my own money.

I could do stuff. I wasn’t, you know, tied down to studying all the time. And I realized that if I was going to have friends, I had to loosen my grip on this. And there was a moment where I was working. I was a shift worker at that time because I was forecasting, and two of my friends came in at the end of my shift, and they were like, all right, we’re going to go out.

We’re going to go have some fun. And I had eaten all my calories for the day, and I was just like, no, I’m sorry, I can’t do that. I’m done for the night. And they were basically like, we’re not leaving until you come with us. And I think that was like, that was that moment of, like, I really do have to make a choice. Like, am I going to have friends and have a life, or am I going to stay at this low of a weight

and sit at home feeling cold all the time and everything.

So that was really a turning point. And I think that’s where I can. I can say that, like, I moved beyond, like, the clinical anorexic behaviors and all of this. I did a little bit of exercising, all cardio, of course, because, like, I just need to burn calories. Like, what? You know, how many calories can I burn to, like, make all the calculations work for me?

And it never was much. It wasn’t, you know, maybe like a 20 minutes jog or, you know, a little, you know, cardio video that I’d play for 20 minutes. But the exercising was just mainly calorie burn cardio. A lot of my weight was controlled through just the eating.

Dani:

Yeah. You know what I really love that you just said was, at this point, I was no longer clinically anorexic, because I think that a lot of people think that an eating disorder is like an on and off switch, right? You either have it or you don’t have it. You’re either sick or you’re recovered, and it’s not that way. Like, you may 1 day no longer meet the criteria for the formal diagnosis, but you can still have lots of those behaviors, thoughts, feelings, et cetera, that are still

problematic and disordered and. But. But it kind of sneaks under the radar. Right? You know what I mean? So tell me. So I feel like. I feel like this is kind of. Well, I feel like you were further out of it than that when our paths crossed. But, you know, some. Somewhere in that ballpark, I feel like our paths sort of crossed. And where would you say you were at. At that point? Like, what were the. What was the years? I guess in between here.

Wendy:

In between where, like, I considered myself moving away from the clinical. So that was. I mean, that was probably 15 years ago, 1520 years ago. But, like you said, it’s been, like, a bit of a. Like you said, varying levels. Like, there’s been times where, like, I would still have disordered eating behaviors. If I get really stressed out, I would start restricting.

It wouldn’t be to the extreme that I did in college or when I first moved to California, but it would be there. And then if I got happy and things were stress free, maybe I’d gain a little bit of weight back and I’d release my grip. And that had. And that has basically been the majority of my life since then. So if, like, I moved away from, like, the clinical anorexia and, say, like, 2005, it’s like, 2024, like, most of my life since then has been on this spectrum of normal eating and kind of

stress restriction. And it’s been, like you said, the voice in your head that tells you you need to be as small as possible. You should always be eating as little as possible. That’s the goal, is how little can you eat and get by. That voice never went away. It’s always there. And for me, one of the first steps in healing was hearing that voice, recognizing it, and ignoring it, even if it was hard to ignore it. Yeah.

Dani:

Yeah. And I know that we’re talking about, like, in your story specifically, it’s anorexia. It’s. It’s restriction, mostly. Um, and you also mentioned you were quite thin, and you can get you know, quite small, but there are so many other people that still deal with these exact same thoughts, exact same patterns. Maybe, like, other things that are also disorder, binge eating, over exercising.

Some other things I won’t dive into here, but they can also be a totally normal weight. So, I mean, that. That really slips under the radar. And I just want to put that out there because if you’re, like, out there listening right now, like, I see you. I get it. I know that these people exist because I talk to them every day. So I just think that’s an important thing to mention, you know?

Wendy:

Absolutely.

Dani:

But, yeah, that. That wave of kind of more or less disordered. Right. You know, and, like, what would. While you were in this, like, what did you want? Like, if you saw a better, quote, unquote, better future for yourself, like, what would that have looked like, you know, five years ago, seven years ago or something?

Wendy:

Yeah. I mean, you know, for so long, my goal was just be as small as possible, eat as little as possible. But I think I. Underneath it all, I wanted. I wanted to look fit. I wanted to look strong. I wanted to look like somebody that had the discipline and the commitment to working out. I wanted to look like somebody that, you know, had control and everything.

So there was this. There were these physique goals that were kind of, like, traditional, like, you know, body image. So I wanted that. But, like, underneath it all, I just wanted to feel like I was in control around food. I wanted to kind of have a plan. And that’s what I really struggled with, is just kind of not knowing if that was ever achievable and just feeling like I can’t have both.

Like, I can’t, you know, I can’t be okay and have a good relationship with food and have a great physique. It’s one or the other. Like, either you’re going to have intuitive eating and do the cupcakes and cookies, but you may not have the body that you like, or you’re going to have, like, this wonderful physique, but you will have to, like, white knuckle every experience that you have with food.

And that’s kind of what I thought the future was going to be like, was okay. You know, there’s this, you know, hope that you can have it both. I just didn’t see that that was something that was achievable for me.

Dani:

Right. Well, I think that’s, I mean, like, a pretty fairly healthy goal for someone to shoot for. So when we did cross paths, I looked it up just to see exactly when it was. You mentioned it before we started recording, but July 2019, you signed up for our fat loss challenge. So tell me about that, because I vividly actually remember going through your questionnaires and going through your pictures and going, oh, yeah, yeah.

Wendy:

And so that would probably be surprising, right? So here’s this person that’s always been in the small body, and they’re, like, trying to do a fat loss program. So I’m a great example of, like, going vegan doesn’t cause you to lose weight. It’s not like this diet physique miracle I had. Actually, when we moved into this house, I’d actually gained some weight.

I mean, not much, ten pounds or so, but it wasn’t like intentional weight gain. It was like a little bit of too much partying with the neighbors and stuff like that. Too many happy hours eating chips and salsa and everything. And I had put on, like, ten pounds and I did not like the way that I was looking. And, you know, my cardio hit combos wasn’t helping me, you know, get back to where I was before.

So here I was, vegan. Vegan didn’t cause me to magically lose ten pounds. And I really didn’t know what the heck I was doing. So even though I live in a very diverse, largely urban area, I actually don’t have any friends that are vegan. So nobody can accuse me of going vegan because it was the cool thing to do and all my friends are doing it. Like, I am the only, like, actual vegan that I know in person.

So I was. I didn’t know how to eat. I didn’t know how to choose good foods. Like, I knew macros and cow definitely knew calories. Like, I can tell it rattle off the calorie count of almost anything after 20 years of varying levels of disordered eating. But, like, as far as eating vegan, there’s so many. There’s so much conflicting advice. Like, there’s, like, you know, the people that say that you don’t have to have any protein or, oh, eat whatever you want.

Like, you can eat whatever you want, it doesn’t matter, and you’re going to have the perfect body. And so I was just kind of floundering a bit. And so I heard about you and Giacomo, actually, through another podcast and looked you guys up online and saw that you had this fat loss program. And, yes, I wanted to lose fat a little bit, but I also just needed some help.

I needed to. I knew at that point that, you know, I was in my forties I’d put on the ten pounds. And before, when I was in my twenties and thirties, if I put on, like, five or ten pounds, I could lose it in two weeks. Great. But I, you know, I just, I knew that, like, up, I’ve gained five pounds that’ll be gone in two weeks. I’m just going to cut my calories in half and do it extra cardio.

And even, like, everything I had tried for like, a year or so hadn’t worked. And then I became vegan. That wasn’t doing anything either, which was okay. That wasn’t the full reason, but I felt lost. And so what I really liked was, like, this was like a whole new approach. I had, I had a personal trainer for a few years, maybe about two years when I was living in Charleston, South Carolina.

And it was a time where I was trying to, you know, like, learn a little bit more about exercise rather than just cardio. And what I liked about the personal trainer at the gym, he was working at the gym that I had joined was he was like a 50 year old ex body builder. And so here this tiny female coming in and

saying, I want a personal trainer and I want him.

And that was because I did not want the, the typical trainer that’s like, let’s get a, let’s get, you know, get a flat stomach and a great booty. And, like, I just didn’t, I couldn’t, like, with my body image issues, I couldn’t do that. And I was actually struggling. Like, I didn’t know if I even wanted female trainer because of problems with comparison and things like that. So he taught me the basics of lifting, and that was really awesome. So I had, like, a bit of a foundation of

lifting for about a year or two. But then when I got kind of on my own, I moved back more into the hit and cardio. So when I saw, like, vegan proteins and I saw the fat loss challenge, I was like, this is my opportunity to kind of, like, relearn some of this and, like, maybe change what I’m doing because the hit and the cardio that I had gotten back into just doesn’t seem to be getting me to the physique that I want now.

Dani:

And I know that we have a very diff, we have a very specific type of philosophy and way that we approach things. And it was probably very different to the types of approaches that you took in the past. Like, what was that kind of like to almost sort of, like, relearn a lot of that stuff? Were you hesitant? Were you resistant to it. And like, what was it like?

Wendy:

You mean like, as far as like, training types or nutrition or a little bit of both?

Dani:

Most, I mean both, but mostly nutrition. Like, our philosophies around nutrition and, you know, how big a deficit should be and refeed days and deloads and all of that stuff.

Wendy:

Well, the nutrition. So as far as what has been most healing in my journey with like, you know, this, this vegan weight training and, and nutrition, you know, I struggle with saying bodybuilding because I’m like, I’m not a bodybuilder.

Dani:

She does do bodybuilding. She is a bodybuilder. You don’t have to compete to be a bodybuilder.

Wendy:

Was, and this is what’s been most healing. And, you know, this, Dani, is like the true, like, perception is of food as fuel. Like, if you want to achieve this, you actually need to consume food and you can. And to me, like having, like, a fitness coach, that’s actually, I think one time you’re just like, wendy, did you eat all your food? And I just, I love, like, that to me, just gave me the warm fuzzies because it’s just like to have a, like, have a fitness professional actually, like,

wanting me to meet my calories. I think you said, like, my macros are not like, hey, that’s your top limit and anything below that spine, like, that’s your goal. So going below it isn’t winning. Yeah. So for me, like, the perception of food as fuel to achieve the physique that I want, that was, that’s been game changing for me. And I just, it’s been really interesting to be in a place where I’m like, I can eat more.

Like, you know, it’s the end of the day, I have 200 calories left. I need to get those in because if I want to be able to lift heavy tomorrow morning, if I want to be able to build muscle, like, I need to, I need to eat my food. So the nutrition part has been really like, that mindset’s been great and it’s been kind of an oasis from a lot of, like, everything else that I’m surrounded in because so many of the people

around me and the women still have that traditional mindset of, like, the goal is to eat as little as possible. That is my goal as a woman is to consume as little food as possible.

Dani:

Right?

Wendy:

Yeah. And to be so, to be in an environment where consuming sufficient food to be able to perform has just been so refreshing.

Dani:

And I remember there was a period where we were walking your calories up. And you were just, like, shocked, just absolutely shocked because this was like months and months and months of walking the calories up and, like, only good things happened. Only good things happened from.

Wendy:

Yeah. And there’s still a little bit. There’s a little bit of excitement, a little bit of apprehension when you walk my calories up. But, you know, when I was in my build last year and I was at, you know, what would have considered, I would have considered a deal breaker weight five to ten years ago, and to look at my body and be like, this doesn’t actually look that bad. Like, I’m at this weight. This is the weight where I would have, like, cut, you know, cut everything out of my life, you

know, ten years ago. And I’m like, huh, I don’t want that bad. And it’s really just kind of the training and

the macros and everything, but to be able to, sometimes I look at the number of calories that I eat and I’m like, how is this working? Like, if I, one of my friends, like, I eat, you know, 2300 calories a day, they would. It would blow their mind because of that 1200 calorie ideal and everything that we have. It’s fun to be able to do that. Yeah.

Dani:

So, okay. I know that you did the fat loss challenge. I remember looking at your stuff and I remember, I can’t believe I remember this, but I remember sending you videos being like, so you don’t really have pounds to lose. So we’re going to do more of a body recomp, if that’s cool with you. And you were cool with it, and then you were, I think, maybe the first person to join our muscles by Brussels program, back when it was still called the academy.

Wendy:

Yeah.

Dani:

Which was awesome. And then you were there for, like, a couple of years, I think, doing occasional one on one consults with me. And then at the end of 2022, you were like, okay, let’s do one on one coaching. Like, what was it that made you decide that was the right move for you? And also, like, what has it been like since then?

Wendy:

Yeah, sure. Well, going into the academy or the muscles by Brussels membership, like, that was important for me after I did the fat loss challenge because, like, I didn’t want to get lost again. And it was nice to have a plan and to have guidance and to have workouts and to know that I had somebody to reach out to because I was afraid that if I finished the fat loss challenge, got a, you know, if I was back to my own devices, I would just kind of slip back into kind of this spinning my wheels,

you know, kind of gravitating toward whatever, like, little pop culture trend was out there. So that’s what I really liked about going into the membership program, was I felt like I was, I was still wasn’t, like, you know, by myself and alone. So the inspiration for actually going to, like, one on one coaching was just like, I was having a lot of fun and I kind of wanted to just level up and, and I think that I wanted, I was really enjoying what I was doing.

I was still, I was feeling like I needed a little bit more direction, and I kind of really wanted this to become my hobby. I wanted to be able to kind of, like, own this. And so I felt like by going from, like, the membership to the one on one coaching, like, I was leveling up, like I was taking this seriously.

Dani:

And when you say this, you mean, like, lifting and pursuing, getting stronger and building muscle? And do you feel like that happened, like, when you made that shift and were you, like, apprehensive that, that maybe one on one coaching was, like, not going to work or it was like a gimmick or something? Because a lot of people think it’s a gimmick.

Wendy:

Oh, no. Well, I think I had interacted with you and Giacomo enough over the past few years that I knew that you guys were the real deal and that you were, you know, you had integrity. I listened to all the podcasts, you know, and really kind of kept up with your messaging, so I had the confidence that it would work. I think what may have been my own fears is like, can I do this?

Can I make, I make it worthwhile? Like, and I think that’s where it was. Like, I still, you know, I don’t want to waste your time. And so for me, it’s just like, okay, if I’m going to commit to this, if I’m going to invest in this, like, I’m definitely going to show up. Like, this is going to be, you know, this is going to be my thing. This is going to be my hobby.

But I totally didn’t, I didn’t think it was a gimmick. Now, you know, I think one of the challenging things is, you know, the workouts, like, making sure I’m doing the workouts properly and I’m in kind of a unique situation. But, I mean, this kind of shows how flexible one on one coaching can be. I don’t go to a gym. I don’t really have the time to because just the commute and everything.

And then honestly, a lot of it’s my body image issues and not even just with my body size, I just do not work out pretty. I don’t, you know, I sweat a lot and turn purple on everything. I don’t like working out around other people, and I feel like I can be more focused when I’m on my own. So I’ve kind of, over the past couple years, built my own home gym.

And so there, you know, I think one of the challenges is making sure am I doing everything properly so that, like, I am getting, you know, the work that I’m putting in is, you know, getting me the results that I need. And so I think that for that, that’s a commitment for me to be recording what I’m doing, you know, making sure it’s easy to kind of, for me to stay focused on the nutrition side and just kind of like, oh, I checked all the boxes on the, on the lifting, but to make sure, like, am I

doing the moves correctly, am I progressively overloading and everything? And I think that’s been working out well. Now that I’m very committed to communicating with you and showing you the videos more consistently, it’s hard for me to do the videos because I look ridiculous at 530 in the morning working out in my basement.

Dani:

So, I mean, I think everybody looks a little bit ridiculous working out and doing their progress pictures and stuff like that. But actually, that’s a good question. Like, okay, since, like, okay, you mentioned body image issues. We do pictures, um, weekly now. You know, some people say, I will not do

pictures.

That’s fine, we will not do pictures then if someone does not want to do that. Um, but you have done the pictures and you have done, like, all of the, looking at the scale and things like that. How has your relationship to your body and the scale changed since sort of watching that as data?

Wendy:

Yes, exactly. Well, kind of talking about the, like, the photos. So one of the things that I do is I crop my head out of them. So it honestly helps me step back a little bit, because if I have to look at them like, it’s just, I’m just looking at a body. It’s not like, oh, there’s my face on there. But one of the nice things is to have that very objective view of my body because I don’t see the changes that are occurring as easily, or I get fixated on one thing that I don’t like, sharing the

progress photos, going ahead and just taking my face out of it. So it’s a little bit more anonymous. It’s helpful to have, you know, a coach that’s like, looking at that very objectively and kind of knows what to look for because especially with, like, muscle building, you’ve told me, like, this is a, this is a marathon, not a sprint, like a cut would be.

And so the changes are very gradual over time, and they may be masked by the fact that, like, your just body’s getting a little bit bigger. So it’s helpful to have somebody, like, point out what’s going on because I certainly don’t have the skills to do that. And I’m very susceptible because of my body imaging issues of fixating on, like, the flaws or what I think are the flaws and not noticing, like, the big picture changes. The scale has been another big thing. So there’s a couple of,

there’s a couple philosophies out there about how to, like, handle eating disorder recovery. And, you know, one of the things that I really like about how your perspective on this, Dani, is that so often, you know, people that are recovering from eating disorders are told that the solution is to stop caring what your body looks like, stop looking at the scale, you know, stop counting calories and doing this and that and that. That idea was always too much of a swing for me to get.

Dani:

I don’t, I don’t think it’s very realistic. Like, honestly, I mean, if somebody can do that, I think that would probably be a great solution for them. But I think that almost everybody cares what they look like to some degree.

Wendy:

Exactly.

Dani:

So asking somebody to, not especially somebody who’s been very focused on it for a long time to just, oh, just don’t care about that anymore. No, it’s not going to happen.

Wendy:

Yes, exactly. And so to be able to still be able to kind of care about what I look like, but do it in more of a performance perspective versus a, like, you have to fit into this ideal has been huge. The scale is like, one of the things that we’ve been working on is not letting it be so scary and looking at it. As I’m a scientist, I work in data all the time.

It’s data. It’s not something that’s attached to who you are or your moral value or something. And a lot of people are surprised that I get on the scale every day, even as somebody that’s recovered from an eating disorder. But it’s a, one of the things that you’ve helped me realize is like, it’s a way of seeing that the scale can fluctuate from day to day.

And it’s not necessarily like a sign of some kind, something going wrong. And to be able to just get on the scale and just be like, up. I’m up a little bit this day, I’m down a little bit this day. And to know it’s not always a trend and it doesn’t necessarily, like, need to, one day of the scale doesn’t need to necessarily drive all of your decisions for the next week or two, just kind of wait and see.

And so it’s, it’s been really helpful. And there have been times where I’ve gotten on the scale and I’ve been like, oh, I’m not okay with that. That was a big jump. And then it’s just like, just wait a minute. Just wait. And then, sure enough, two days later, I’m back to where I was before or when I was on the build. Seeing the way the scale go up, but, like, having, having a coach be like, this is what we want, it’s okay.

Like, good was so helpful because that was really scary. Like, I knew that I needed to have the skill go up to start building muscle because I don’t, I haven’t had a great baseline of muscle because I did so much cardio for so many years. So I need to be able to be comfortable with a build to be able to get that.

Dani:

So I think this is true for a lot of women, even if they were not, like, very thin to start. I mean, almost everybody is going to need to see the scale go up to build muscle. And that is a hard freaking sell for a lot of people.

Wendy:

And to have a fitness professional telling you, like, this is what we want, it’s okay. It’s a little, it’s a, it’s a little mind blowing because, you know, I’ve lived in a world where fitness professionals are always encouraging that skill to go down no matter what, who you are. It’s like this cookie cutter approach to women of, like, just always lose weight. Just always lose weight no matter what your starting point is.

And so it was so helpful last year. I mean, really, that build was very healing in a way, in so many ways to be comfortable with the scale going up and knowing that that was, like, part of the plan. And so having, seeing the, seeing the weight as just a way that we’re measuring what my current goals are and what the progress is has been very helpful.

Dani:

And then we did do a mini cut last year. So I think that was the first time. Yeah, it was the first time since you did the fat loss challenge. Which wasn’t really, like a weight loss thing. Um, but we did do a cut, and some people might be like, what? Why would you ever. So before I get into this, you mentioned, like, recovered from an eating disorder. Do you, at this point in your life, feel like you are recovered from an eating disorder?

Wendy:

Yes, I feel that I’m recovered, but I always put the caveat on there that the voice never totally goes away. You know, you can. The voice is always there, but, like, I have a totally different perception on what I want now. And so it’s very easy to just silence that voice and be like, yep, whatever, and move on.

Dani:

Okay, good. I wanted to hear you say that because I don’t want anybody to think I’m sitting on here like I’m some kind of God who treats eating disorders, because I do not do that. But folks that have body image issues or still have some disordered eating habits hanging around or mindset stuff around this stuff, I think there’s a lot that we can do on that.

But we did end up doing a mini cut last year, and I want to know what that very deliberate, very planned out mini cut felt like compared to your historical ventures into weight loss.

Wendy:

Yes. Well, it was. I was kind of curious as to how it would go because I was like, is this going to trigger me so that I’m not going to. But it was. The mini cut was done in such a highly planned and deliberate way and with guidance. So it wasn’t me just being like, I don’t like how I look. I’m just going to try to lose as much weight as possible. This sucks.

And then just, you know, and then it’s like, what do you do when you’re done, other than just keep losing weight? It was so intentional, and I think that was. I think that’s what really helped. And it wasn’t like, you know, just a huge cut in calories and tons of cardio. It was a bit of a decrease. And then we kind of waited. It was like a wait and see and see how my body responded.

And so I thought it was done in just a very controlled and intentional way with a definite endpoint. And

I think that’s the other key, is decades of my life was basically being in a mini cut with no endpoint. So even when I moved beyond the clinical anorexia, I felt like I was kind of just always trying to cut, never knowing, like, what the goal was.

And with the mini cut, like, we had an end date, so we were trying to just see what my body would do and how. Yeah, I think for me, and correct me if I’m wrong, I think part of the goal was just to show myself that in this bodybuilding journey or cycle, like, I can pull whatever trigger that I need to get the results that I want. And so having after been on, like, a moderate build, you proved to me that like, hey, if we need to, like, you know, show you the hard work that you’ve been doing, like,

we can do this mini cut and then you can see it. And that was what was huge, because when I went through the mini cut, like, all of these, like, beautiful muscles started to just pop out. And it was, it almost was, like, more inspiring for me to, like, keep pushing hard in the gym and, like, be more committed to the next build because, like, my body at that weight. So I went back down to a weight that I had been, you know, before, and I look completely different. And it was awesome. Yep.

Dani:

That’s exactly why we did it, was because I remember as we were, like, going up with the calories and the weight was like slowly, deliberately, purposefully, but still going up, you were a freaking champ about it. You did it, you stuck to it. But I know there was a point where you were like, okay, I don’t love this look right now. I don’t want to have to get new clothes. And I remember telling you before we even did it, like, hey, when we need to get leaner, we’re going to be able to do it.

And I wanted to make sure that we kept that promise to you so that you could see that. Yeah, it is, it is possible. People think that if they start gaining, uh, even in a good way, that they’re just going to gain forever and ever and ever. And, uh, you know, that’s learning the hows and the whys of nutrition, why we do things the way we do, I think, helps people feel more in control, but not like in a neurotic kind of a way.

Wendy:

Yes. You know, and that’s why, that’s why I’m so fascinated with bodybuilding. I mean, there’s a couple of, there’s a couple of philosophies in bodybuilding that, you know, at least I’ve felt very comfortable with. And one of, one of it is the idea that, like, it’s a cycle. Like, you don’t want to be in a cut forever, just like you don’t want to be in a build forever, but it’s a cycle of, like, how you create this physique.

And so I really like, I appreciate that the other thing that I really like about bodybuilding is the philosophy of bodybuilding is really like this performance, this idea of performance and strength and everything. And that’s just something that I, in the fitness culture that I grew up in, wasn’t there. And so I really, really enjoy the idea of, like, it’s okay to get bigger because that’s making you stronger.

And it’s not, it’s not a sign of, like, lack of control or something like that. Like, when you are getting bigger, it is so that you are performing better. And I know you guys have talked about this a lot on some of your podcasts about how you just feel better sometimes when you’re in a build, you know, sometimes you get kind of really big and you’re like, but, like, it is like, you feel better, you feel stronger,

you sleep better, you have more energy.

And that’s just something that, like, you don’t hear a lot of when you’re, when you’re well fueled, when you have good nutrition, like, you’re actually at your best versus you’re so skinny and you’re eating so little. But there’s a comfort in knowing the process now. Like, I, that wherever I am in the process, like, I can get back to any place that I need to. I have the tools and I have.

Dani:

The, and the mystery is, like, gone. Like, a lot of people see somebody with, like, a crazy physique or whatever and they’re just like, how is it possible? It’s like, now you know exactly how it’s possible, but it’s like that cycle over and over, often for years, you know?

Wendy:

Yes, absolutely.

Dani:

The last thing I want to talk about, because I know you only have a few more minutes. Here is the week to week stuff that we do at our check ins. Like, how do you feel like that affects your life and, like, your day to day? You know, I know we do a lot of mindset stuff in addition to the training and the nutrition. Like, how does that change your day to day.

Wendy:

So. Well, I feel like sometimes you’re like, my second therapist, and so I feel so I’m highly disciplined when it comes to, like, executing certain things, you know? And part of this is because of my history with being, you know, body image. So, like, doing, getting my workouts in and everything. Like, I can, I can, I can do that. But for me, some of the day to day support that I need is the mindset stuff.

It’s making sure that, you know, I don’t, you know, I don’t fall back into, you know, getting freaked out. If I’ve had a day where maybe I’ve fallen off of plan and trying to, like, skimp on my calories the next day, it’s feeling like, you know, I can navigate situations in which I might be challenged to, you know, make good nutrition decisions or get a workout in if I’m traveling and things like that.

So I think a lot of it for me is, is, you know, there’s the getting the workouts assigned. That’s great. It’s having the macros assigned, and that’s great, too, and having the plan, but it’s just trying to, like, just navigate the day to day decisions, the day to day challenges. So, you know, some of the things that you really helped me with is when I’ve had a day where I’ve been out with friends and I felt like I completely was off plan and I’m, like, trying not to freak out the next day,

maybe the scale popped up two pounds because of water retention or just, you know, having some

food in my belly. And I kind of, because of us working together, I feel like I have your voice in my head now saying, like, you’re fine. It’s just one day. It probably is not that bad. Give it some time. Let your body adjust. And so, I mean, honestly, for the first time in my life, even in, you know, in my years of recovery, to be able to wake up the next day after a day when I feel like maybe I didn’t

make the best food choices and be like, I’m just going to get back to my plan again. Like, just eat my food and I’m going to get back on plan and it’s going to be okay. Instead of doing that cycle of, like, you know, I ate too much. So now I’m going to restrict, that’s, you know, having that guidance even on a week to week basis of, like, you know, just two weekends ago, I had some challenges with making some good food choices and everything.

That’s huge. One of the other things, and I hope I can describe this right for me, which was, like, an unexpected benefit of having weekly coaching, is just feeling like I have somebody that’s supporting me when I’m in situations where everybody else is doing things and I don’t know, like, should I be my friend is like, not eating carbs today.

You know, a couple years ago, I would have been like, maybe I shouldn’t be eating carbs today. Or my friend over here is trying intermittent fasting, or I’m listening to some podcast where some guy’s talking about intermittent fasting, and I’m like, oh, maybe I should be doing that to be able to bounce those ideas off of you. Like, hey, you know, what should, you know, what about, this is so helpful, but also just knowing that, like, like, when I’m in a situation where I might feel,

you know, maybe influenced or insecure about, like, my, you know, what I’m doing and the decisions that I’m making in the moment and be like, no, I have a plan. It’s okay. Like, that’s really helped my confidence. So if people around me are making food choices that don’t align with my goals or they’re maybe restricting and I’m in a build, it’s so helpful to just be like, nope, I have a plan.

We have a plan, and it’s okay. Like, they’re going to do what they’re going to do, but I have this plan and I have these goals. And if I’m worried about it, I can talk to my coach in just a couple days and, you know, I can make sure that I stay on track and get encouraged that I’m doing what I need to do, it’s just, it’s really helpful to be like, no matter what anybody is doing around me, like, I have somebody that’s in my corner that’s looking out for my goals and keeping me on my plan.

And so I can really, like, not compare myself as much to everybody around me because everybody else can be doing what they’re doing. They have their own goals and their own plans. I’ve got something that’s specific to me, right.

Dani:

And I feel like a lot of people do that on social media especially. They scroll and they’re like, oh, this person’s doing this. This person’s eating this many calories, this much protein. What if I did that? Like, I know that’s how I started out in the fitness industry, was trying to copy what other people, like, not in the fitness industry, just as a fitness enthusiast, just trying to copy what other people were doing, and it was not good.

But like you said, you can have. Anybody can google a workout plan that’s going to work. Okay. Like, you can go to google, type in workout plan for building muscle, get something. It will work if you do it.

Same thing with your nutrition, then why aren’t people doing it?

Because it’s not just that. It’s. It’s the support. It’s the accountability. It’s like, I don’t know. I think kind of being tethered, like. Cause we all kind of, like, start to float away like a balloon after a while. And you need somebody like, nope, get back here.

Wendy:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, we’re all human, so we kind of can get pulled into what. Whatever environment we’re in. I think the personalization is huge for me if maybe that’s a better way to put it. Like, I feel like I have a personalized plan and personalized goals, and it keeps me focused when I have all of this other stuff coming at me from social media or for my friends or whatever. Like, I know I have a personal plan, and I know it works for me. A good example is, like, I joke body by bagels.

I have a protein bagel every day. And when I have people around me that are like, oh, I can’t, you know, I can’t have bagels or something like that, I’m like, my plan allows me to have bagels. My plan allows me to have chocolate. And I know that I can be eating all of this stuff over here. And though these people may be afraid of it, it’s okay, because it works for me. It works for my personal plan and my goals.

Dani:

Yeah, and you’re right, it is very personalized because you’re the. I mean, I’m having these conversations with you, but with somebody else, I may be talking to them about, okay, I need you to pay a little bit more attention to what you’re having, and, like, I need you to take this a little bit more seriously. With you, I’m like, okay, I need you to take this just, like, a hair less seriously, and we’re gonna get better results, you know?

So, yeah, I think. I think that the personalization is really important. I really appreciate you taking the time to, like, sit down and talk to everybody about this, because I know a lot of it’s like, I mean, you said you’re an open book, but it’s still vulnerable stuff to, like, put out there in the universe. But I guarantee you there’s going to be people listening to this that can relate to at least part of what you’re saying.

And even just letting people know, like, there is another side, like, there is a way through is major, because you said, you know, you’re. You said you’re turning 45. You know, you spent 20 years, give or take, in this sort of mindset, and you still came out the other side and feel like you’re, you know, reaching that place of balance that you probably have been trying to find for a while.

Wendy:

Yeah. I mean, at 45 years old, to finally be feeling comfortable in my own body, and that’s, I mean, it took a while, but it’s there. And to be comfortable with food choices and to have a plan, like, and to feel like I’ve got, like, one of the best physiques I’ve ever had. Like, I think that hopefully that gives

some people some hope. It took a while to get here, but, you know.

Dani:

Yeah. And it’s not perfect, right? Like, we all have off days where we don’t feel like we’re killing it. I know I do. But still, to feel like a general sense of, like, yeah, I’m doing pretty good, actually. I think is far cry from where your mindset was at the, you know, 15 years ago.

Well, I super appreciate you doing this. I know you’re not, like, super active on social media, but some people might have questions for you. Is there a way that they can reach you that you would be comfortable with if they did have questions for you?

Wendy:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m barely on social media. My Instagram accounts just cat videos and vegan food.

Dani:

I’m so jealous. Yeah.

Wendy:

Oh, yeah. I’ve got it perfectly.

Dani:

How about this? How about this? If anybody has questions for wendy, you can email them to coacheganproteins.com and I will make sure that she gets them.

Wendy:

Perfect. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If anybody tries to reach me for social media, it could be weeks. Yeah, but they want to connect through you. I’d be like I said, it’s actually quite an honor to be able to talk about this. And I’ve never in any kind of pseudo public forum told the story, told my story. So I hope it’s helpful and encouraging and happy to answer any questions if anybody has them.

Dani:

Awesome. Thank you, Wendy. All right, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of vegan proteins muscles by Brussels radio. If you have any questions, requests, questions for

Wendy, email us coach. If you are interested in one on one coaching, you can also email us coacheganproteins.com dot.

You can go to our website, veganproteins.com comma, check out the coaching tab, read all about what it is. Shoot us an email. Once again, my name is Dani and we will talk to you soon.

Wendy:

Bye.