Ep 172 – Why You Can’t Stick To A Plan

Ben:

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins, Muscles by Russells Radio. I’m Ben and I’m Dani this is episode 172.

Dani:

Awesome. Well, welcome back everybody. We have Ben again this week. It’s, it’s actually the same day 40 right after Giacomo did. But this is, it’s just so exciting to us. It’s like my brain is having a hard time processing like, oh, Ben’s basically like down the road compared to everybody else. So we’re excited to have another person that can actually come here and talk to us because like we talk to each other all the time for like a couple of decades so

that can get hard to keep having conversations. So it’s great to have new voices and not just be over Zoom because we talked to Alice, we talked to Athena. but it’s over soon.

Ben:

It’s different. Yeah. J come on and I just had that same conversation after we wrapped up that podcast, which by the way, I kind of wear the same thing every day. So I don’t think they would necessarily know even if it was like, it could be another day I would very likely be wearing the same thing anyways. I know you were talking about how you tend to kind of just wear all black stuff in, in one of the most recent podcasts. And I’m like, I feel that I feel like I have a uniform.

Dani:

What combination of leggings and hoodie? Am I going to dazzle them with today? Exactly. And I think we’re, well, we’re in very similar shirts.

Ben:

I am, in fact not part of the powerlifting team, but I do enjoy an oversized hoodie on me. which I guess was an undersized hoodie on Ryan.

Dani:

It was Giacomo gives me hell all the time because I have a hoodie problem. Like, I have way, way, way too many hoodies and I can’t stop myself from buying them.

Dani:, Ben:

But then anytime I have something that I need to not dress like this for, I have nothing and I don’t know what to do, I feel that, but I, I’m also really pumped to be able to come here and do stuff in person with you guys.

Ben:

I really enjoy doing podcasts and just the podcasting format. So I always enjoy the opportunity to do them in person as opposed to, like you said, doing them over Zoom. I think it just, it’s different, like the, the body language that you get from, like, looking at somebody and kind of like you communicate things in a way that’s different. And I think also from a viewing perspective. I always like watching podcasts. more than I do when it’s just like two people in different places.

Dani:, Ben:

It’s, yeah, it’s more of a, it is, it is better.

Dani:

But I’m trying to think like, when was the last time I recorded a podcast on somebody else’s podcast where I was with them in person? I don’t remember. It’s been probably years since that’s happened. Occasionally, Robert comes through town and he’ll be here and be on the podcast. But like, it’s really pretty rare and it’s part of the reason why we don’t have guests a lot.

Up until recently. It’s because up until recently, any internet recording sounded like garbage. So we had to trash a couple of those. But anyway, I, I wanna hear how you’re like, feeling about. I know you guys just talked about this, how you’re feeling about your first show and all of that. But like, what’s next?

Dani:, Ben:

I don’t know if you guys talked about that, not in terms of what’s next in the immediate future, so that I think that would be good, something that would be good to touch upon.

Ben:

We did talk about how I’m planning to compete with the plant built team, obviously later this year, Mr America and then also looking forward to doing WMBF Worlds at the end of the year, which is in Boston, which is like one of the main reasons I wanted to compete. This year was because it was in Boston in my hometown and people would be able to come watch friends, family, that sort of thing.

So we talked about those, but I didn’t talk about all the shows I have planned in the interim. So typically doing back to back bodybuilding seasons is very difficult. It kind of does depend on the division in terms of how feasible it is to pull it off. But even for divisions where the conditioning requirement, conditioning is kind of like a for people who might not be as familiar bodybuilding lingo for like how lean you are.

Even if the requirement is not as much, it can still be a lot, especially for somebody who’s a newer competitor to try to maintain that or figure out a plan to maintain that through the rest of the year.

Dani:, Ben:

And for bodybuilding, like for men’s open bodybuilding, it’s the biggest, it’s, it’s the leanest, it’s the toughest category to maintain that.

Dani:

Look out of all of the categories and it’s your first season.

Ben:

And I would argue you probably, I would argue that you can’t really be maintaining that for especially like six months, you might be able to do it for 456 weeks, maybe max, like once you start getting to that 78 week mark of true, like 100% you’re ready, you’re probably gonna run into issues with sleep even in the last like week or two of dieting up to where I am right now.

I found that that was starting to happen. I was starting to hit that wall. I was feeling, I think it’s again a pretty calm experience. You feel good, you feel good, you feel good and then you don’t feel good anymore. And there is a little bit of gradual drop off, but then it’s like you kind of hit this wall and I definitely found that point a couple of weeks.

definitely the last week before, the competition, my first show. So I think that my plan has been pretty much the whole time to just focus on the fall shows. And the spring shows were kind of like a late edition just because I felt like it would be good to. And we were talking about this with Giacomo, get my feet wet, and get some experience. So I do have quite a bit of, quite a few shows planned in the next couple of weeks.

So I just did this one this past weekend and I’ve got another one back to back, which is tough doing shows back to back. And then I have a week break and then I have two more back to back and then I think I have two weekends off, which I have things both weekends. It’s Boston, Comic Con. I don’t think it’s called that anymore. I think it’s called something else.

But I’m, yeah, I’m going with my siblings. I think we’re gonna do some sort of like cosplay together. So that’ll be fun. Yeah. I don’t know exactly what we’re doing. She’s planning it all. and then the next weekend I’m going to upstate New York for this, like, vegan getaway with a bunch of friends. We’re

renting a airbnb up there, like a sanctuary.

Yeah, with, with Athena. So I’m super stoked for that. And then the following weekend after that, I got, because I was runner up to the pro card winner. This past weekend, I got free entry to another show. The promoter gave me free entry to that show. So I said, sure, why not? I’ll do that. So I have that show and then I have a break for about six or seven weeks until the next show. So you do kind of have to plan things out ahead of time. And yes, there’s always some degree of adjusting on the

fly and, and auto regulation would be kind of the fancy way to, to say that. But there, you know, part of it is accepting that you can’t be 100% for, for every single show. And it’s for me, the spring shows have been a really good way to kind of get my feet wet and experience what it’s like being up there because I definitely did have a little nerves getting up there even though I was told that you couldn’t tell too much, ever, ever would have guessed that.

Dani:

And I don’t think any of the judges would have guessed that was your first show either.

Ben:

So, I tried, I was just like smile, smile, smile, smile the whole time. And I was a little shaky with my first couple poses. But I felt like after I hit my first couple, I was, more settled in and I wasn’t feeling, as much of those kind of jitters. And I know that with every show that I do, it’s gonna get better. So by the time those fall shows roll around and I am actually starting to get to that, that 90 that 95 that 100% I will have already had all this practice in this stage time.

And I think also it’s like, I’m only planning to do a bodybuilding season every couple of years. So I might as well take advantage of it and go to all the shows that I can if they’re pretty local. I’m pretty like, I think the biggest thing that holds people back is one, it’s very difficult to have a long season and do all these shows just like from your body holding up.

But also financially, that’s something that is definitely a consideration. And I think for myself, I tend to be pretty conservative with how I like, I’m a homebody. So like most of the activities I do are not super like expensive. Or costly. And I’m not a big, like clothing person or like material things is not something that I really spend a lot on or really like value a ton, but like experiences are something that is that for me.

So I’m ok with like, having that be a little bit more of something that I like sy, you know, invest in financially is doing all these shows, paying for the, the professional stage photos, getting all these experiences because I’m only gonna do this a couple of times in my life. And so I really value having that to look back on. And generally, if I had a client come to me, I probably wouldn’t rec I definitely would actually wouldn’t recommend that they do what I’m doing, which is like

doing, doing like a dozen shows in a year, spread out over like six or seven months. I’d be like, are you trying to like, ruin your yourself? And I think sometimes for myself, I know that I’m very stubborn and I

need to experience and make those mistakes myself. And at the very least then it allows me to say like, hey, I did this and I don’t recommend it because personal experience and what other people have said or hey, if you do want to do this, you need to

at least know the risks involved. And this is how I would navigate or this is how I would do things. So I think also it’s gonna be a valuable learning experience regardless.

Dani:

I mean, it’s, it’s just, I think it’s, the whole setup is so interesting. So, like I was, I was gonna say that actually, I would not recommend that approach to most people, but I don’t think it has to necessarily be a bad approach because of the way you’re coming at it. Like I’m not going to be the best for these shows, but hopefully I can be the best by these shows.

So that’s one thing, two, you have a very healthy outlook on an off season needing to be years. Like most people don’t do that. And I don’t know if it’s more in the natural world or not. But, you know, people compete year after year after year and I get it, it’s like really addicting. It’s, it’s very, very fun, but you’re not gonna come back better the next time.

Dani:, Ben:

In fact, if you do it year after year after year, you’re probably gonna come back a little bit worse unless you’re that, that guy that I placed second runner up to who is 19, who, who’s competed every year since he’s 16 and just like grown like a weed in between ever since.

Ben:

And like, he, he got like, lean for his life. He was actually Leaner at I think, like, not this time around, but the last time that I saw him. So I actually saw him at the first OCB show I ever went to, I saw him compete and, he was quite, quite lean and very muscular. But then I saw him, like, at this show and I’m like, this dude has put on like another £10 of muscle or something like that. but no, it’s not your body.

I’m sure it kind of just snaps back or covers like that. but yeah, I would totally agree. It’s like competing back to back seasons. I was, yeah, we said this on the last episode. You do tend to, I think kind of look worse. You’re just not recovered enough in order to, you know, forget about making any improvements. It’s like, can you even get back to where you were before you started your prep?

Dani:

Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve heard Norton say YOLO, you’re only lean once because I haven’t heard that because, like, yeah, people, they go too hard the first time and then they just keep trying to stay there and it’s like they can’t get back to that. But, you know, it’s always hard to talk about because there’s always a handful of freaks. Right.

Just a handful of people that, just for whatever reason, I don’t necessarily think it’s their technique or their plan. It’s just like, genetically, they just seem to be able to either recover that well or their body just stays really, really lean comfortably. So you see those handful of people come back and they do either look better or they maintain and then everybody else is like, ok, I wanna do that. I wanna do it like that. But like most people aren’t gonna be able to do that.

And I don’t know, I just think it’s kind of a hard conversation to have with a lot of people but to speak to like, oh, I made these, maybe, maybe we’ll see time will tell. Like, oh, I made these mistakes. I, I wouldn’t recommend this. My first season, I was competing with Plant Built and I decided I wanted to do a warm up show so that I would have some experience by the time I stepped on stage at plant built. So I did the spirit of America.

Dani:, Ben:

That’s really, that’s so it was a different time then it was like late summer.

Dani:

But still, I was like, oh, cool, I’ll do this one show and then in 12 weeks, I’ll be perfect for Mr America and it was such a bad move for me. Maybe if I had done many shows, it would have been a little bit different. But that 12 weeks was so brutal that now anytime somebody’s like, oh, I’m thinking about doing this show and this show and I’m like three weeks apart is like ideal. You can get them three weeks apart.

Two weeks is OK. One week, like you said, is really tough, doable, but tough. But then to spread it out over a whole season. That’s what I did in 2018. I did something like eight shows or something in 2018 from June to November that after, like, middle of September, I was, like, cooked. I was showing up looking like, not better anymore. So that was, that was tough.

Ben:

Yeah, I mean, it’ll be interesting to see how my body holds up and, like, it’s possible I get to the fall season and I get to those shows and I, get to whatever my, my leanest is. And then I look back on how I was in the spring and I’m like, oh, ok, maybe I’d, didn’t like, I actually looked better in the spring and I didn’t look as good in the fall. that’s something that’s totally possible when you try to kind of stay and hover around this, this lean zone for too long.

But that’s something that I’m ok and, and accepting of. and then going back to what you were saying about how people’s personal experiences can shape how they then interact with other individuals who might want to do the same thing. I think that is something that it can help and it can hurt in, in multiple ways. Like, in your case, I think it can be helpful because you can kind of warn people about like this is what I went through the experience or maybe not warn is their best, but just

like informed consent sort of thing. but I think where you run into issues is with those people, like you

said, who are maybe the genetic outliers and they were able to do it and then they get, yeah, they get clients and they’re like, oh, we’re, you know, we’re gonna come back better next year, sort of thing. and I think it ties to pretty well the conversation, today, which is talking about like why people can’t stick to a plan and be consistent and adherent.

And if you get a coach who is just giving people a plan that this is what worked for me. And so I’m just gonna give that to all my clients and, you know, I’m gonna assume that that is gonna work for them. you get clients then who are beating themselves up because they feel like, oh, yeah, exactly. Oh, I wasn’t able to do this.

Like, what’s wrong with me? There’s something wrong with me or I’m letting my coach down or I’m a disappointment and then, ok, the competition didn’t go as well as planned. So now I have to, you know, come back again next year so I can be better and it’s, yeah, it can be, it can be a bad place. Yeah.

Dani:

And unfortunately I really do feel like a lot of coaches, that’s how they start. They’re just like, well, I’m awesome so I can make anybody awesome. And I, it’s, I, that’s what I really, really don’t agree with now, someone can just be great at what they do and also be a great coach, but because they’re great, doesn’t mean they’re gonna be a great coach unless they’re just coaching themselves over and over again, which most people aren’t.

I did want to back up and say my experience of the 12 week break and it not being a good move and competing in 2018 for like six months and by the end of it being cooked, I don’t think you’re going to have that experience because of how, well this first half of the season went because of how good you’re feeling. Like for me by June, I was already like, I could, I had gone over, I could already feel it.

I was already past the edge. And that’s the thing is like, everybody is so different. So sometimes my prep clients will be like, you know, way in advance because they’re planners. Most bodybuilders are planners right way in advance. So, like, tell me what we’re gonna do. What is my prep gonna look like by the time we get to June, July, August. And I’m like, I don’t know, like I can guess I can guess what, like I have a give you a basic plan of what I hope your peak week is like, but like it

could change, it will likely the plan is just gonna keep changing. So it’s hard to be a bodybuilder and be such a planner, but then also have to make peace with the fact that you’re gonna have to be flexible enough to change the plan. Like not, maybe you will like you will, you’re going to have to be ready to pivot if you need to.

Ben:

No, that’s a very good point. That’s something that I do feel like has been a big lesson for me. This prep is that I have had the whole thing kind of planned out, but I’ve had to adjust things on the fly and just like be OK with moving, like making lateral moves. Like I remember thinking to myself like, OK, I’m gonna diet for this number of weeks and then I’m gonna take a diet break and then I’m going to do another chunk of dieting that’s gonna be this long and I’m gonna delo and then I’m going

to do this and that and things pop up, you get injuries or you get little kind of like life events come up and you have to be flexible. And I think that’s why having a lot of like tools in your toolbox as a coach or if you’re a self coach like myself is helpful because you can say like, OK, what is the best tool for the job right now? And how can I apply all the things that I know and find what is going to, to serve me best? So, I think that that has been something that’s been really helpful is using

more of that auto regulation. And like you said, I am feeling pretty good right now. So I’m pretty confident that, yeah, like I’ll be able to, have things progress well throughout the end of the year because I’m taking a phasic approach and not, and not trying to, you know, like we were talking about earlier, be 100% for the entire time, which is, yeah, pretty much impossible for certain divisions and certain, criteria. But yeah, we’ll, we’ll have to see how it plays out.

Dani:

I’m really, I’m really looking forward to it. I could talk more about this.

Ben:

I know.

Dani:, Ben:

I’m sure I’m sure we could but ok, let’s kind of turn to the actual topic.

Dani:

So you had mentioned like downstairs, that, you know, food focus and stuff hasn’t really been much of an issue for you. So I’m curious, like I’m guessing, but I will ask like, how well do you feel like you were able to adhere to your own program? And you are self coached, which is another thing I definitely do not recommend for competitors usually, period, but for first time competitors, it’s just kind of mind blowing honestly.

Dani:, Ben:

but you’re setting your own plan, like, how well do you feel like you were able to adhere to it, I guess, very well.

Ben:

I think that that part of it is setting up the initial plan in a way that makes sense. And so, when I’m setting up a plan for somebody, whether that’s myself or a client or something, you always start with

the individual context of that person’s life and you build the plan around that as opposed to trying to make someone’s life fit a certain plan or a certain prescription.

So, I started with, ok, like, based on my schedule, how many meals could I eat each day? What do I, you know, what are my activity levels gonna be like, like what, what time do I have to do cardio or do steps or whatever it is? Like, how can I work in these different things into my daily routine and also create myself runway to do more if I need to, especially with like the steps in the cardio and that sort of thing like, ok, I’m starting with this amount.

But what is realistically like the ceiling that I can get up to cause that will impact where you start with nutrition as well? Like if you start out on, you know, your, your basement, you’re giving yourself nowhere to go. So part of it was kind of taking that long term view. And then figuring out, ok, I can eat at these times. What are things that I mean, things that people don’t sometimes think about is like, ok, what are the logistics of actually like eating?

Like, can I bring certain things with me? Like, is it frozen, is it refrigerated? Do I need to have it? So, it’s like shelf stable. Do I have access to these certain things? so, like, one thing that I did was that was very unconventional was, like protein sources that I was eating. I was mostly just having, like, protein cereal for most of my folk, which is a really strange, weird thing.

And, I’ve talked to some people about that. Like, I was talking to, Rachel and she was like, oh, II, I tried the protein cereal, like, I really enjoy it but it’s not very filling. It’s not very, like, there’s not a lot of volume to it. I’m like, you’re right, there’s not, but like, for myself, I’m somebody who I have a really big, like, sweet tooth and I love, like that, that sort of thing is important for me.

Like, that helps me adhere to something a lot more. Like if I finish, a savory meal, I’m always like, oh, I need something sweet afterwards. Whereas if I finish, if I finish, like something that’s sweet. I’m like, ok, I’m good. Yeah. So I knew that that was gonna be something that would work well for me. so, like I made that and also the fact that, I could just bring it in little baggies or like Tupperware and just, yeah, and like we had a, like I had access to a fridge.

So I would just keep like some almond milk in that fridge and then when I needed it, I would just portion it out in. I would have the portion like baggies of the cereal. I just throw it into a bowl, add some almond milk and I could eat it like, while I was working or, it would take me like, I, I wouldn’t need to, it’s not something like Satan or tofu where you have to, like, either prepare it or you have to, keep it somewhere.

You have to heat it up then. also, like, I knew that I would only have a set amount of time to meal prep every single day. And so I tried to pick things that would be like, two seconds to meal prep. Like, ok, throw some protein cereal and some baggies, grab the carton of almond milk to bring with me to work the next day. Ok. You’re fine. You’re sorted. Yeah. And that’s actually another weird thing that I kind of did.

I kind of really didn’t have any vegetables for, like, most of my prep. It was pretty much just fruit. So again, it kind of comes back to like that. Personal psychology. Like, I like certain vegetables, like, I like a lot of, like, water based vegetables, kind of, I don’t know. I’m strange with my food.

Dani:

So, like me.

Ben:

Exactly. Exactly. Like cucumbers, tomatoes, like bell peppers, carrots, like I like that sort of thing. I’m not a huge, like, greens or broccoli or like anything that’s really fibrous, it just doesn’t digest very well for me and it doesn’t make me feel very good. And so I kind of go for more of those, like, easy on your stomach, like the, the water based vegetables that are almost more like fruits.

So I would have those, like cherry tomatoes and cucumbers are probably my favorite and then fruit. So it’s like focusing when, you know, like the principles focusing on things that are like micro nutrient rich and water and fiber. You can tailor things that are not only helpful for your own personal psychology, but also like what fit your lifestyle can train.

So that was kind of how I was setting things up. It was like, I want to give myself the best chance for success. So I’m gonna kind of try to like set a baseline plan and it didn’t really change. Most days looked really similar, which is kind of another thing. that was helpful was like, all I had to do was execute because I knew what I was doing. I just, no, no, I was just like, OK, this is my baseline plan and if I really wanted, like I might change what fruit I was having or I might on a certain

day like be a little bit flexible with swapping a meal for this or that, but most days looked really similar, at least Monday through Friday. And so I would kind of try to keep things structured because it takes decision, fatigue out of it. That’s a big thing I find for people. so that was hopefully, answered. Yeah.

Dani:

No, that’s so what I’m hearing is like, it was pretty easy for you to adhere to because it was so tailored to you. Like, if I were to go to Google and Google vegan bodybuilding prep meal plan, it would almost be like the dead ass opposite of what you just said, right? But that wouldn’t have worked for you. And I think that’s really important when we’re talking about adhering in general for a lot of people is, you know, a lot of people are just going to the internet and being like, give me a

plan that will work and it’s like in theory these plans will work. But in practice, people can have a really hard time with them sometimes for completely different reasons. So I think that tailor is that a word tailor? It sounds like you. Right? I’m not sure, but I feel like that’s probably to me the most important part of getting somebody to it here, like I don’t know about you.

But when I look at all of my clients, the way their plans are set up, I mean, some of them are kind of similar because they have similar lifestyle. But for the most part, they’re like, they’re pretty different. I have people that are obsessed with cooking so, like, everything they have is like a home and then I have people that are like, I will literally eat from a gas station every, you know, so those programs look completely opposite.

I have some people who are like, I will only eat whole foods and other people who they don’t like most of those foods. So we have to change it, but that’s how we get them to adhere because there’s so many different paths to the results that you have to be able to bend with them. So it’s funny cause bodybuilding is such a kind of neurotic sport in a lot of ways.

But also if you don’t have the skill of flexibility, you’re, you’re gonna fail. So I don’t know, I just think that’s kind of an interesting thing. But I know even though Ben is like a new coach with vegan proteins, he’s not a new coach. So he’s coached vegans for a really long time.

Dani:, Ben:

So what are some of the reasons that you see, people give you at least that they say I can’t, I’m having a hard time in hearing because blank, I think like we just talked about a large time, a large part of it or a large proportion of the time it is that kind of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole or is that the expression or is it the other way around?

Ben:

I don’t know, something like that, where they feel like they have to do a certain thing or do things a certain way, like, oh, I have to do fasted cardio or I have to do, I have to run like that. Yeah. Again, like, just to give a personal example. I really like walking. I like walking outside. I like listening to a podcast and getting out in nature a little bit harder to do in New England winter.

but regardless, that’s something that I really enjoy. So if I had said to myself, like, oh, I need to do this type of cardio, like I need to go on the, the, the treadmill or the Stairmaster or the elliptical and I need to eat these certain foods or I need to do intermittent fasting or I need to do what only eat whole foods, whatever it is. I think putting unnecessary restrictions on yourself or make like, thinking you have to do things a certain way is a big part of why people aren’t

successful. They feel like they are lesser for tailoring something to themselves because they can’t stick to some random prescription that they found or that somebody gave them. I think another, I don’t know if you have anything to come and I know it’s similar to what we’ve been talking about. if you have anything to come, I was just gonna say, I think another common one is time.

Time is a really big one. people saying that they don’t have enough time, in their day and obviously some people lead lives that are like more hectic than others. Like, maybe, like, I can’t say that when I was in college with, like, you know, all I was doing was taking classes and maybe going to like some ultimate frisbee practices or whatever.

Like, like that, my time was the same as a single mother of three, working two jobs. So, like we, we, that has to be said, no, no, not at all. And at the same time for that individual finding ways to take care of yourself through nutrition, exercise, maybe arguably more important than, than that college student who’s all stress free. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, you might have heard this express that you can’t pour from an empty cup.

You can’t give back to those around you if you’re not taking care of yourself because eventually you’re gonna burn out. so you have to somehow find a way to create some space and some time for these things, even if it looks a little bit different than somebody else. So I think the, the more ways that you can find to integrate these things into your day, like, can you get a walking, you know, walking pad for while you’re at work?

So you can be getting your steps in while you’re doing something that would otherwise be sedentary. Can you use some of these time saving techniques when it comes to, maybe using a meal prep service if that’s something that you have the ability, but you have the money.

Dani:

Yeah.

Ben:

Yeah, exactly. Or like using some of these more, like, packaged, like ready made things. There’s a ton of options that are range from, more like you could get premade, packaged things that basically are made from all whole food ingredients. and then you can get one.

Dani:, Ben:

Yeah, I’ve, I’ve heard of like soup or they’re like dry mixes. You add hot water and it’s like, or like, you know, like rip Essel.

Ben:

Like, he has a line of basically like, whole food plant based like prepackage, like soups and, things like that. So no matter where you kind of fall in terms of personal preference, you can probably find things that save a little bit of time.

Dani:, Ben:

The minute rice that you put in the microwave that you can just heat up, my broccoli every day.

Dani:

Yeah, people are like, oh, what is the special way you make vegetables and like, I buy it frozen and put it on a plate and stick it in a microwave. Like, that’s what I do every night of my life.

Ben:

And if you travel a lot for work, like, you can find things that are, like protein sources that are travel friendly, vegetables fruits, you kind of pick up these little tricks and tools. And that’s something that would, you know, when we worked with so many people, we find we get these like unique cases and situations where like, oh, I remember when I had this client and like that worked for them. Let’s see if that works for this person.

Dani:

But again, I feel like someone needs to be willing to be flexible in that situation because even if you, the coach said, hey, get this frozen microwavable meal, it’s going to help you get to your goals still, if they have this belief in their head that they need to eat like Rainbow Asai food of bowls, three meals a day. In order to move forward, they’re still like somewhere and they’re gonna feel like a failure somehow, which is a difficult kind of bridge to cross.

And a lot of it comes down to like, you gotta kind of trust the process for a little bit. Maybe you eat this frozen meal and after a while you decide you just don’t like it. That’s fine. That’s fine. We can work around that. Yeah, that’s easy to work around. But like give it a shot. Even if you don’t think it’s like perfect on paper.

Ben:

I was gonna say, don’t let perfection be the enemy of progress, right?

Dani:

And I, I think a lot of times people feel like they’re just not living up, they’re just not living up to this imaginary thing they had in their mind and they can’t do it perfectly. They’re not gonna do it at all. Even though eating a frozen meal that maybe is like, higher in sodium or, you know, fats than they would like,

normally. Like it to be, it doesn’t have enough vitamins and minerals that’s still likely gonna be better than what they were doing before in terms of getting them to their goal.

Ben:

Yeah, you see this a lot with people who are always focused on what is like the most optimal thing. And there are a lot of people who are in the fitness space, whether that’s nutrition or training or whatever it is where they hyper fixate on like what is the most like nutrient dense or the most who like whole food, whole foods is such a silly thing or like what is the best exercise for this? And they focus so much on that, that they miss what optimal, like the term optimal actually means

and it like, optimal is context dependent. Like it, it truly does depend on your own life situation and circumstances and what is going to be adhered and sustainable because the best plan is the one that you can stick to. It’s cliche. We’ve all heard it a million times, but it’s super true.

Dani:

So true. And you don’t realize it until you’re doing it. I think like, I don’t, my history is probably very different than your history. Because you’re younger than me. You had the internet. Like, when you were learning this stuff, I was like, learning all this fitness stuff from magazines, like Oxygen magazine, which was when the clean eating I would say was like, at its peak, Toscano, I don’t know if anybody remembers her clean eating everywhere.

And it’s like, I would be reading these things. And first of all, all the protein sources in these clean eating books was salmon chicken tuna eggs. There was not even a whisper of a plant-based protein option. So I was looking around, it’s early two thousands. I was like, OK, what protein options do I have?

And it’s like, yes, there was tofu. Yes, there was Tempe. There was also boca burgers and I was like, oh, this, the nutrition facts on this looks a lot closer to chicken and then tofu does, but it’s processed and it’s got, so did they have like light life veggie dogs?

Dani:, Ben:

Like when, when, when tofu puffs to a couple of years ago, they should have kept that name.

Ben:

I like that name better. That’s just like the one. It’s because it had the word pups in it and threw people off. Not the most vegan friendly marketing team.

Dani:

I, I remember eating boca burgers to try to reach the protein goal that I had set for myself and, and I would have cliff builder bars. Those did exist back then. It’s the only one that existed, but it did. And I was working at a restaurant, I would sneak it in the bathroom to eat the builder bars because we didn’t get breaks. And I remember this woman who I was like, kind of looking up to like, she was sort of mentoring me a little bit.

Her telling me like you’re, and I was like, I cannot continue eating this exact same thing every day. Like I’m 19 years old. I wanna rip my hair out. I’ve reached my goal weight. What now? And she was said something along the lines of you’re lucky to even be getting away with eating those foods and making progress and it like, broke my brain at the time.

So I was like, oh no, I’m doing it, I’m doing it badly. So then it spiraled from there. I won’t go down that path. But I feel like a lot of people even today, even with, I feel like there’s more conflicting information now, or at least it’s easier to find conflicting information. They also have that idea in their head that even if they’re doing something and making progress and feeling like, I don’t know, emotionally satisfied with what they’re eating.

If they think it’s not w like, you know, t calling CT calling Campbell approved, then they’re not doing it right. And it’s like the alternative is probably not, it’s, it’s not, probably not gonna get you where you’re trying to go. It’s not going to get you where you’re trying to go.

Ben:

So pick, I also sometimes see it with people where, when you set up a plan for somebody and it’s working well and they’re seeing the results. It’s almost like they feel this guilt that it’s too easy and especially if they’ve struggled with it their whole life. They’re like, this is too easy. Something’s going, something’s wrong here. Like, and they might start doing things without telling you, like, over, like, I know you had a really good youtube video on this recently, like,

under eating your calorie goal, whatever the, your coach gave you or maybe they start doing like, extra sets or extra exercises in the gym. Oh, hey, I went out for like a five mile run the other day before my, you know, leg day. how’d your leg day go? Oh, you know, I wasn’t as strong as I typically am. You’re like, ok, well, we’re seeing what’s happening here. I’m trying to think of some other examples of this basically. Just like, oh, I need to do more.

Dani:, Ben:

It’s like people who feel hard or they don’t feel like their progress is earned.

Ben:

Yeah. Like, or I need to, you know, I need to be sweaty for this workout. Kind of a similar idea. Yeah, that’s something I, that’s something I see a ton.

Dani:

Yes. If I have heard people say like, or like, they’re like, oh my God, this is so much food. Like, there’s no way I’m gonna be able to lose weight and then they, they do and then they’re like, well, I’m still really full. Can we cut it down? And I’m like, no, like, I promise you, we’re gonna get to a place where we have to cut it down. Be patient. Like we will get there.

But yeah, if people don’t feel like they kinda suffered for it a little bit, sometimes they feel like ripped off of part of the process. And I, I don’t know, maybe when I was younger, I would have felt that same way, but like I’ve done enough hard shit at this point in my life, I don’t need anything to be harder than

it needs to be anymore. So, I actually had a question for you. So it is kind of like pivoting a little bit. So I think, I think that’s the main thing. So you said like, I don’t have

time. I mean, there’s so many things in that same ballpark. Like I don’t know what to do. I’m too tired. I don’t have the money for this. Like there’s workarounds, I think for almost all of the kind of, I hesitate to call them excuses but like reasons people give for not being able to stick to a plan. What do you feel like? Are the non negotiables? What do you have to be like? You have to, if you want to move forward, like you have to commit to at least doing this

Ben:

good question. I think often time people jump a little bit too, like you’re saying, people jump a little bit too far in terms of like trying to do too much at once. So I think it, it, it depends where that person is starting from. Like, if they’re from a place where I haven’t been exercising for years, I haven’t paid attention to my nutrition at all.

What they need to start doing is gonna look very different to what somebody who has like, hey, I’m a competitor and I wanna get in bodybuilding, you know, shape what I might start them out as like their heart is different than someone else’s heart. But I would say that the big rocks that everyone needs to focus on is, I’m gonna start with things like sleep, like getting enough sleep that you are feeling good throughout the day.

Again, that’s different for everyone. People need different amounts of that. But the more that you can like ensure that you are like sleep quality is on point. Sleep quantity is on point. Stress management is another one that I think, is overlooked when it comes to like nutrition and training with nutrition. Most of the time, it’s just like focusing on habits.

Like, are you getting fruits and vegetables throughout the day? Are you getting protein at each meal? Are you eating at like somewhat regular times throughout the day. Do you have a plan? Do you have some structure, that is gonna carry, you know, water, making sure that you’re staying on top of your water. You’re not having caffeine super late in the day. If, if you find that that affects your sleep.

most of the time, like, you’re not having a bunch of, like alcohol, like on a bunch of nights, throughout the week, it’s really most of the time, basic things that people know and it’s not like the, oh, you know, I need to make sure that I get this amount of lucy at each meal and like, I need to make sure that I have this many grams of intra workout carbohydrates.

Dani:

Like it’s argue even if you’re like a high level bodybuilder that, that is not, no, that is negotiable if you’re way down the line.

Ben:

Yes. Yeah. Most of the time and then like with training, it’s OK. How many days a week can you commit to going to the gym? What we do for your plan is going to depend on that. But you can make really good progress with like a minimal amount of time. Like there are bodybuilders who like professional bodybuilders who train three times a week for like an hour and they, they, you know, that’s what they have and they make it work. You can find ways there are tons of like most of the time, if you

have the knowledge of the principles, you can apply those in a variety of contexts and settings. And so you start with whatever this individual can commit to minimum. I think that is the key, like, start if, if you’re in doubt about what you can do, start with, like what is the, the minimum that I can do? And I know I can commit to and you can always build it out from there. I hope that answered.

Dani:

Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. It’s, it’s, you know, I, the reason I was thinking of this question in the first place was actually that, the podcast that you had me listen to Doctor Joe Clumsy and I, I don’t actually know who he was talking to.

Ben:

it’s just his co-host, I think for that segment, he does like a couple of different.

Dani:

It’s a podcast, which is a great podcast.

Dani:, Ben:

He’s like the, he’s the real natural bodybuilding coach, Og Giacomo name dropped him on the last episode saying how you like saw him in a magazine back in like 2002 when he first competed.

Ben:

I’m like, wow, he’s been around for a while.

Dani:

We were at some fitness expo one time where like, you know, all of the huge names are walking through and people are just flocking to them. You know, the Greg do like that. Mark Loebner.

Dani:, Ben:

Doctor Joe walks by and you know, Jack Moore like, like 95% of people are, like, who’s this guy?

Dani:

Really? Totally fangirling. And, you know, that wasn’t happening to him that day anyway. It was a really, it’s a good podcast and he was talking about sort of like, obviously he’s talking to bodybuilders competitive bodybuilder and he was talking about some of the non negotiables with bodybuilding and it just, it did get me thinking and I, I agreed with him, like, you know, tracking your food in some way, doesn’t have to always be the exact same way.

But tracking your food in some way, once you reach a certain level, this is, I think this is important for some of our audience to hear. Like you said at the very beginning, if you are not, if you are not training, if you have not been paying attention to your nutrition at all, like the nonnegotiable for me is like, you have to be willing to pay attention, you have to be willing to actually look at what you’re doing in the first place. But once you reach a certain point that I would say is

like middle intermediate, late intermediate, maybe like tracking your food in some way is I think going to become nonnegotiable. It doesn’t have to be macro tracking. It doesn’t have to be like, you know, tracking every single day all of the time.

It could be like a kind of meal plan hybrid situation. It, it could be just like writing a little journal at the end of the day of what you had, but you have to do it because I think that’s the hardest one for people is they don’t want to do that one.

Ben:

It also doesn’t have to be a forever thing. Like, it’s a tool. It’s something that you pick up, you practice it for a bit. Once you get the hang of it, then you can have it in your arsenal and you can bring it out when you need to, like maybe the past, you know, the last few weeks of our prep, you need to be ultra precise, you can bring it back out. Whereas maybe you were able to get to a certain point, kind of just using a meal plan or, using more of a habit based approach.

It’s funny because I was just mentioning this, when I was talking to Giacomo, but when I first got introduced to fitness, it was through a Mike Matthews book. the Legion founder. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him and I was kind of just interested in learning about it for school because I was studying exercise science. And so I read the book and for the nutrition part, he was talking about weighing and measuring your food on the food scale.

And I’m like, what is this crazy guy talking about? I’m like, this is psycho behavior. I’m not doing this. So I literally read the entire book closed it. And I was like, well, I’m not doing that and then I came back to it like a week later and I kind of like reread it and read it through and then I was like, oh, what the hell, I’ll give it a try. And then, yeah, the rest is, the rest is history.

Dani:

Yeah, I, I remember the first time I started weighing my food, my scale, it was like, funny. It had a dish on the top, like, like an actual and it had the like lever that went back and forth.

Ben:

It’s like a like a lab.

Dani:

I’m glad that’s changed. It wasn’t very accurate. Like it was plastic in like $10. But, but yeah, I think that, you know, I do have a lot of clients that fall in that sort of intermediate area that we are doing some kind of, of either just like plug your food into my fitness pal and be mindful and we’ll see what comes out or, hey, these are your macros try to hit these macros or, you know, this is the meal plan that is working for you right now.

You know, you get sick of something. You let me know. But this is what we’re gonna do for now and there’s a lot of resistance to it. And I think that for a lot of people is a reason why they don’t adhere is because they kind of like throw the whole baby out with the bathwater. They’re like, I don’t wanna, this is a pain in the ass. I don’t wanna track my food so I’m just not gonna do it at all.

And there’s like, there’s steps, there’s, it’s, it’s like a spectrum basically of like military precision over here for competitive level bodybuilders or people that are trying to get really, really lean for whatever reason or sometimes people who are even trying to grow might need that. And then all the way over here, it’s just like, you know, pay attention to what you’re eating, have vegetables with lunch and dinner and, you know, make sure you have a palm sized amount of

protein at each of these meals. Like, but it’s gotta be something you can’t just do nothing or, you know, I find in the vegan community especially. Hm. This one, this one drives me kind of nuts. It’s like, well, I didn’t track anything and I, but, but everything I ate was healthy.

Ben:

It was all whole foods.

Dani:

Everything I ate was a healthy food and it’s like, that’s great. Your blood work is probably fantastic. But like if you came to us and your goal was to lose two inches off of your waist or, you know, see some lines in your abs for the first time ever. Like, it does not matter if it was whole foods or not.

Ben:

There’s also probably a reason you’re coming to us. It’s like whatever you’ve been doing hasn’t been working. And the more I don’t wanna say, the more complex or the more advanced your goal is the more advanced the methods you need to use to get there is, because I don’t think tracking actually is that complex. Once you get the hang of it, it’s like, really quite, like it might feel foreign at first, but that’s kind of like anything and then you start doing it for a little while and it

becomes like second nature. And now I think we’re both probably at the point where, like, you can look at something and you ever play this game where you guess how much it weighs and then you put it on, you like, oh, yeah, this looks like it’s like 100 and 50 g and you, it’s like 152 I’m like 240 mL of soy milk. Like, there you go.

Dani:

And I was like, that’s creepy.

Ben:

So, it, it, it does, even if it seems a little overwhelming, a little daunting at first, it’s probably just because it’s new and of course there’s things that might play into that as well, depending on your living environment. Like, if you’re living with other people and maybe they are not the most supportive and they see you doing this kind of strange thing.

Like, I was living, with some roommates in college and they saw me, like, weighing my food and stuff and so they would comment on that. And so that was something where sometimes I would even be kind of like, secretive about weighing my stuff because I didn’t want to get like judged by them or have people commenting it all the time. So that can definitely be another barrier.

But I think ultimately, for myself, I was like, what matters more to me the fact that some people like might have some comments about it. But ultimately, like, I’m doing something that is improving my quality of life, it’s improving the confidence that I feel with my ability to have some control over like the fact that OK, if I do Xy and if I do X thing, I get why results which I think is powerful. If you have felt like you’re in a place where like, I don’t understand like, why am I gaining

weight or why am I losing weight? Like having some objective of measure like tracking shows you that OK, if I actually am like super accurate with everything that I put into my body and I know exactly what it is and I know like the outputs as well, maybe like my physical activity levels or whatever other kind of things play into that equation, then I can like use data to track exactly see how things are trending and I can make adjustments.

Dani:, Ben:

And that was really empowering for me to, to know that me too.

Dani:

Actually, it made it made such a huge, huge difference. And one of the things so this can kind of go two ways. One, when you learn that stuff, when you really get a grasp of like, oh when I eat this much of this or I eat this much protein or this many carbs bla bla this happens to my body. One, it helped make pro more processed foods way less scary. But on the flip side of that, if somebody is, their goal is to be 100% whole food plant based when you do that, you can learn how to do it.

Like if that is really important to you, you’re not going to figure out how to make that work for you without actually taking the time to sit down and figure it out. So I don’t know, I have two other big, big ones that people say like I can’t adhere. So the next thing I wanna talk about is just social situations that I feel like comes up with some of my clients every single week.

Like they were, they nailed it all week, but then they had like a family thing on the weekend and they felt like it went way off the rails. So sometimes they can get right back on it. Sometimes they can’t, it takes a couple of days. Like, what, what would you say to folks in that situation?

Ben:

I would say the biggest hurdles that I see with people or when people struggle the most is either they didn’t go in with a plan of how they were going to navigate it or something happened that they didn’t anticipate and they had difficulty navigating a change of plans. So with the first situation, let’s say you’re going to like a family barbecue or something like that.

If you just kind of show up with that, like, oh, I’ll just, you know, see what they have at the, even if it’s like a completely vegan barbecue, like we’re not even bringing the vegan issue into this. Like they might have beyond burgers and Impossible burgers. And hey, maybe you can fit that in depending on your nutrition and your, you know, your goals and where you’re at, but maybe not like maybe you need some like, yeah, so those things you got like 20 g of fat in the

serving. So, maybe you would need to get one of like these other brands that are lower in fat that have, higher protein content per calorie, you know, per the calorie amount.

Dani:, Ben:

so if you just show up saying like I’m just gonna have whatever is there or like Light Life veggie dogs, that would be really like a good example because the original burgers if you can still find them.

Ben:

Yeah. I think Whole Foods actually has some like brands as well that are like pretty low fat. There’s, there’s, there’s other examples. g I think has had some burgers that a little bit more. Yeah. Anyways, the point is that if you kind of just show up saying like, I’ll just have whatever is there that can be not the best course of action because then you’re kind of doing things in the moment and in the moment

we tend to get more wrapped up in our emotions and there’s just more cues that

we’re not aware of like whether that be stress because we’re interacting with people, maybe like we’re, we don’t love being in these kind of uncomfortable social circumstances anyways.

Dani:

And people will be like, oh what’s that? You’re eating? I didn’t see that over there. Yeah, like a whole thing.

Ben:

I think if you can plan ahead, not only like, oh I’m gonna bring these things with me. This is what I’m gonna have and then maybe I’ll let myself have like a little bit of this or a little bit of that. Like that’s, I think that’s totally fine. Maybe not showing up super hungry to these events. That’s a big one. Like, don’t do not, I’ve made this mistake before. Do not think I am going to not eat anything the whole day and then I’m gonna show up and I’ll have all these calories, you know, I’ll

have a budget to work with you most of the time you are going to overeat because you’re gonna be so hungry that you’re gonna start eating and you’re probably not gonna stop before it’s, it’s too late. So I would say try to maintain most of the typical habits that you have for that day and maybe just swap one of your meals for that. Maybe that day you rely a little bit more on, like fruits and veggies and leaner protein sources leading back.

Dani:

Yeah. Protein and fiber earlier in the day, Donald Trump starving have a plan, like you said, set a drink limit. If you’re gonna drink, set a drink limit for yourself before you go because that’s one that can, your plans can start to change very quickly, the more you’re drinking. So that’s, that’s a big one. I have people that get their workout in earlier in that day. I feel like that just kind of gives you a win in your brain early and that helps you stay on track.

But when the plans change at the last minute, that, that is, that’s a tough one I think for a lot of people like, oh you thought you were going to this restaurant and you looked it up what you were gonna get and then all of a sudden you got there and people were like, oh let’s go to this one instead and you’re like, shit, I don’t know what I’m gonna do now.

Ben:

Yeah, I think you kind of just have to make the best of the situation and not get caught up in the all or nothing mentality, not get caught up in the, this was the plan and now the plan has changed and because the plan has changed, I’m gonna say f it and I’m just gonna get whatever, because I had a plan and this is not what I thought was gonna happen. This is unfair.

So I’m just gonna, you know, whatever, I’ll just chalk it up as an elf for today. Whereas if you say it’s not perfect, I’m gonna make the best choice that I can given the circumstances. And even if it’s a little bit off when I get back to my routine, the rest of the week or tomorrow, it’s gonna be ok because I, I did the best that I could with the, with the environment that I had.

And if you have a coach who is a good coach, they will say, hey, you did the best that you could given the circumstances. maybe they, they could give you some suggestions of this is what you could do next time if you may be made a decision that you thought was the best, but ended up not being the best. Like, hey, I ordered this beyond burger because it was the only protein source on the menu.

And then you were like, oh, well, actually you could have done XY and Z and now they know. But as long as you’re, I think trying to do the best that you can given the context and given the circumstance. That’s really all you can ask of yourself when things change.

Dani:

And I think over time, like, you build up an arsenal of strategies for those situations, depending on what they are. Like, I always keep a protein source in my car. Like, always, I always have right now it’s melted, I’m sure. But I, I always have like a protein bar in my car or one of those Owen shakes or your protein cereal is probably the best idea because it won’t melt some jerky.

That could be a good one. Yeah, just because sometimes you have up in a place that doesn’t have any protein at all. So that’s one thing right there. But also, you know, you get a sense of like, ok, if we end up at an Indian restaurant, this is the thing I typically get or if we end up at a burger joint, this is the thing I took, you know, maybe I’ll get the Beyond Burger, but I don’t eat the top half of the bun or I need an open face.

Like you come up with these different strategies, but it takes practice and it takes kind of commitment to the fact that you’re gonna try your best and you’re not just gonna be like me, this wasn’t what I thought. So I’m just gonna do whatever and having that like posts situation, autopsy with somebody else. A coach or anybody that’s helping keep you accountable to be like, well, this happened and I did this cause I was thinking this in the moment that’s when you can look back and be

like, OK, this happened. What went well, what didn’t go? Well, what could we do better next time? It’s, it’s critical rather than just what a lot of people do when the day doesn’t go the way they want it to is just be like, la, la, la, la la, like, just pretend it didn’t happen entirely and then you learn nothing and you will find yourself in that situation again. Right. but that actually brings me to my next thing.

Ben:

Can I say one thing quickly on that? also if you find yourself in those social circumstances and you’re getting flak from people around you, I think that is something that is really common. Do your best. I know it’s hard to explain to them exactly why it is. You’re doing what you’re doing without getting angry or upset at them. And it, I’ve been there before.

I’ve been the person who said, like, who’s gotten, frustrated or, felt like I wanted to just defend myself, leave the situation. Like I don’t need to deal with this sort of thing, but most of the time it just comes from a place of, they don’t understand what it is that you’re doing, whether that is because you’re ordering the vegan option or that’s because you are eating something like, yeah, you’re not, oh, like, why aren’t you eating that bun or why aren’t you, you know, doing this

sort of thing? And if you could just explain, these are my goals, these are what I’m working towards right now and this is why it’s important to me. And if they’re still giving you like flak for it just saying, you know, I hope that you can be respectful towards like myself and my decision and my goals and if they’re still not, then maybe you just reconsider if there are people that you want to be doing these events with in the future.

Dani:

Yeah, and that’s a tough one. Realize like some people are just sometimes you just outgrow certain people.

Ben:

It’s hard when it’s family though, right? And you and you don’t have a choice.

Dani:

I got a lot of food pushers in my family. This is probably why we’re all obese. Well, I was, but you know, most of us are food pushers. So I am just the queen of. No. Thank you at this point in my life. Just do you want this? No, thank you. Do you want some of this? No, thank you. And you know, I sound like a broken record but they all kind of are used to it at this point.

Then sometimes they’ll offer something I actually want to like, oh, do you want some soda water? I’m like, no, thank you. I’m like shit. I really did want that. I should have said yes to that. But you know, just repeat yourself. I don’t get mad. I’m not like, hey, stop, just stop offering this to me. I just keep saying no, thank you. And eventually they realize like, no, I’m not, I’m not gonna have the thing.

If they made something special, that’s be good for me. I’ll usually have some of the things because they went out of their way. So, but, but the last one that I wanted to mention and this is I don’t, I guess people don’t really say this to me in their check ins. This is more like actually before people generally start working with us is they just say like I have no willpower.

That is the reason they can’t, that is the reason they think that they can’t adhere is they just think they have no willpower. And that’s like, that’s like their core belief. Like I have no willpower. So what do you do in that situation? Because there are a lot of people that you know, come to us because they’re feeling hopeless and that’s like their kind of last straw.

Ben:

I, I do feel like most of the time it does come down to not willpower, just not having the tools and not setting themselves up for success, whether that be they don’t have like stress management or coping skills to deal with certain situations. I think oftentimes when willpower comes up. It’s because I haven’t eaten in six hours and I forgot to eat.

And now I’m thrown into an environment where I need to eat something. I’m starving and I haven’t come up with a plan and I don’t know what I’m gonna do. And so it’s just you make a decision because your emotions get the best of you and gratefully. So, like if you’re starving and you’re, you know, you haven’t ever had a plan, you’re just gonna default to whatever is gonna bring you comfort.

And yeah, I think most of the time it comes down to like, OK, what can I do to make the highest percentage chance that I don’t need to rely on willpower or discipline? because there will be times that you do need to use that, especially the more difficult whatever your goal is, but the more that you like only use as much as you need to. and not any more than that. So don’t, again, it comes down to like, don’t make it harder on yourself than it needs to be. think about what you might do.

I think it’s called like implementation intentions or something like that. It’s like if X happens, I will do Y so you’re planning, you know, if it’s that again, that expression like if you plan to, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. so come up with like, OK, if I’m in this situation, I will do this certain thing. so that way you don’t have to rely on your willpower or your discipline. So, I think, yeah, that’s, that’s the kind of my initial thoughts on that.

Dani:

Yeah, I, I agree. Actually, I think a huge amount of, I have no willpower is I have not planned for this. And I, I don’t wanna minimize it too, too much because, like, I’ve done a good amount of research on willpower. And it’s the, the thing is, is it’s a finite resource. You will run out of willpower. They, they’ve done studies where they had somebody solve just like a, like a brain puzzle on paper and then they make worse choices than the people that didn’t have to solve the brain

puzzle on paper because their willpower is just, it gets lowered and lowered and lowered throughout the day. So having plans, especially for times where, you know, that you’re just like, not usually your best self, like for most people that’s gonna be the evening largely because they got depleted all day with all the stuff you have to do I think is a huge, huge part of it if you know, like I’m not a big fan of like, oh, I’m addicted to peanut butter.

So I don’t have it in the house. Like I would like to get people to a place where they feel like they could have it in the house. But you gotta know yourself and know where you’re at. Like, if you’re having a really, really hard time, maybe you don’t buy Oreos and keep them in the house. You know, because, you know, you’re not in a place where that’s probably gonna go.

Well, like you’re planning for that, whereas a different phase of your life that could be totally fine. So, you know, having plans for all of the different things, not even just food and nutrition. Like, do you have like a rough plan for like your work day or like how you’re gonna do your chores around the house?

If you’re constantly playing, whack a mole with every single thing you have to do. One stuff’s gonna slip through the cracks and usually it’s gonna be you, like, it’s usually you’re gonna be the thing that comes last and it’s not a lack of willpower. It’s like a lack of planning and sort of prioritization.

Ben:

Yes, I, I do think, like you said, people, I think people tend to struggle the most at the end of the day when they’ve, like most of the time these resources, our energy are being depleted throughout the day as we’re doing things we’re working, we’re dealing with any stresses that come up. And so the more that you can maybe, like, can I do my workout at the start of the day is that’s something that I have the ability to do.

can I get maybe some meals prepped for the day or for tomorrow, whatever it is to set yourself up. So that later in the day you have to make less decisions, you have to do less things. you kind of just have to execute. I think that it just helps.

Dani:

Yeah, I mean, he does this, he do so because we’re always home. We don’t like meal prep a lot. We’ll like, make a batch of something or this or that. But GMO, every time he eats a meal, he gets his next meal ready. Like it’s always on the stove right next to this too much because by the time you’re hungry enough for the next meal, you don’t wanna be over there, be like, ok, well, I said I was gonna have this thing but it’s gonna take 10 minutes to make, I’m hungry now.

Like that sounds silly when you say it out loud. But like I’ve done it, I’ve absolutely been like, oh, I don’t wanna make, wait 10 minutes for that. Let me have toast. Like, so I, even though it’s annoying because his food is out on the counter all day, like I get it and I think it’s really smart. Like if you go downstairs right now he has a pan of oats on the stove, they’re not cooked.

It’s just dry oats in a pan on the stove. So all he’s gotta do is like, turn it on instead of five minute timer and like, that’s, that’s it. So, stuff like that, that it might look silly from the outside. But like, who cares if it’s helping you get to where you need to go? It’s like you said, like, with your roommates first, it was like, oh, I don’t wanna have to deal with this, but eventually, like, if something matters to you enough, I think you do have to kind of overcome what other people

think about it. And luckily most of our audience is vegan. So I feel like they’ve already come to terms with kind of being the weirdo. This is just another layer of being a little bit unusual, but you know, people that accomplish really big things tend to be a little bit different.

Ben:

So, and if it makes you happy, like that’s, I mean, that’s a really big part of it. Like if your overall life quality is improved by doing these certain things, then it’s probably worth it that initial kind of discomfort and, and getting over that. It’s hard though. It’s definitely hard, especially if you’re

somebody who identifies more as like a people pleaser, you don’t like to ruffle feathers, you don’t like conflict. Then it can be difficult to get over that initial hurdle.

Dani:, Ben:

But the more that you do it, the more comfortable it becomes, the more I think people kind of just accept it like you’re saying, and it becomes like it becomes a habit, it just becomes easier for you.

Dani:

I like the, I always like the analogy of like neuroplasticity as like a, a hill of sand. Do you think of the same thing like with marble at the top? So if you’ve been doing something a million times, pushing the marble down in the same direction of sort of poor habits, you have a very deep groove in that sand. You don’t even have to push the marble anymore when it’s at the top.

So to get it to go down a new path requires a lot of initial effort. Over time, it gets deeper and it gets easier. Like the first time someone offered me food 10 times in a row, I probably didn’t say no 10 times. I maybe said no, like three times and then caved and now I don’t even think about it. but the planning, I think that’s not like a knee jerk response.

Like you have to take the time. I tell my clients, like, take 30 minutes on the weekend and just write down what you’re planning to have for the week. Doesn’t have to be exact, write down when you’re planning to work out for the week. Like have a plan so that when you get to Wednesday, you’re not like, hm, what did I say? I was gonna have today or what was I supposed to work out today or yesterday?

Like taking, I do this on Sunday. I plan just basic plan my week out food training, work all of it and it, it helps so much remove the like thought throughout the day. Anyway, I feel like this was a good conversation. Do you have anything else you want to add?

Ben:

Not really. No, I feel like we hit on a lot of stuff.

Dani:

All right. Well, I’ll wrap it up. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of vegan proteins, Muscles by Brussels Radio. If you are interested in any kind of one on one coaching, Ben definitely has some spots open right now. So go to Vegan proteins.com. You can either fill out a coaching application there or you can shoot us an email coach at Vegan proteins.com.

You will hear back from one of us like within a day. feel free to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, youtube, all the places Ben is on there too. So go find him and once again, my name is Dani and we

will talk to you soon. Bye. All right. Awesome, sweet. That was really fun. So fun to talk to somebody who doesn’t drive.