Ep 179 – Navigating Compassion Fatigue

Ben:

All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of vegan Proteins, Muscles by Brussels Radio.

Athena:, Ben:

I’m Ben and I’m Athena and this is episode 179.

Ben:

All right, Athena. Today we are talking about compassion fatigue. But before we start talking about compassion fatigue, this is the first time that we’ve done a podcast together. So I’m particularly excited. Well, we have technically done a couple of podcasts on the, where do you get your protein podcast that I was doing with Sawyer for a bit.

But this is the first vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Pod podcast that we’ve done together. So that’s exciting. I would love to know what’s new with you and how your day has been and then we can get into the topic for today.

Athena:

Very exciting. Yeah. So my day’s been long so we’ll leave it at that. But it’s ok. It’s another day it’s done. It’s over with. We just went on a trip together and that was really fun. We went on a trip to Tannersville, New York, which is middle of nowhere. Nothing to do. Like, not a lot to do, which is what we wanted.

And we just had this big house with 12 vegans total and it was so fun. We had lots of good food, there was a hot tub, a pool, we went to the Catskills animal sanctuary and yeah, I’m still, I’m still in the thrill of that and I am so excited to do that again. How are you? How’s your day? And how was the trip for you?

Ben:

Good. My day has been hot. It’s 95 degrees here in Boston and humid. So there’s that, but the trip was amazing. I really loved getting some bonding time in with all of you guys because y’all live a little bit closer than I do. I know that you’re also kind of a little bit more on the outskirts being in Jersey and a lot of people being in the city. But coming down from Boston, I don’t get to see everyone as much.

So I know I visited you and Brennan, try to do it like once during the summer, at least each year and I’ve seen Ryan a couple times recently, but everyone else I don’t get to see too frequently or I was meeting for the first time. So that was super cool. It’s always just a different vibe when you arrive and you feel like these are my people and that is something that you can cultivate online, but it just hits a little bit differently in person, especially when it’s the little things like

you don’t have to worry about. Is this vegan or is that vegan or you, there isn’t like this negotiation at meal times. Everyone kind of feels like you’re coming from a commonplace of understanding and I think when you just have like shared values or shared passions with people before you’ve even spent time with them, there’s automatically that connection and it becomes really easy to build a relationship or a friendship upon that kind of like mutual, sharing of values.

And so that was really awesome. You guys picked such a beautiful spot and you and Emma did an amazing job planning the whole trip. I feel like it was a good blend of chilling and also going to do stuff. going out to the sanctuary was an amazing time and then cooking meals together, just hanging out and having really awesome conversations and playing fun little games. So, yeah, it was, it was a great time.

Athena:

Yeah, that was a beautiful way to sum it up. It was awesome and it’s always amazing to be with vegan friends. So if you don’t have any, there is hope. a little more hope if you live near a big city. But there’s still hope lots of ways to find vegan friends through Facebook groups. Happy Cow, even as a community. Now veg if you’re dating, the list goes on, but I hope you can all find your community because it really is an amazing experience.

We all found each other through different ways. A lot of mutual friends, a lot of just different connections coming together. So it was definitely, definitely worthwhile and we plan on making an annual thing. So it is, it’s a great, it’s a great, it was a great time. So I’m very excited about it too.

But today we are talking about compassion fatigue, exciting stuff which all of us vegans have experienced. Unfortunately, actually, even if you’re not vegan, most people, well, I think everyone’s experience it to an extent. Yeah, so we’re, we’re gonna get into that.

Ben:

Yeah, I feel like one thing that was relevant for me recently kind of tying it back to that trip was a conversation that I had with one of our friends there and she was talking about what she does currently for work and saying that she at one point was working for a, I can’t remember the exact company it was, but whatever her role was, it was within an animal rights organization. or maybe it was just kind of more peripherally tied like it was a shelter or something like that.

Athena:

I think I know what you’re talking about. It was an animal rights organization.

Ben:

It was an animal rights organization. Yeah. And I think one of the points that we brought up during the conversation was the fact that we’ve noticed a trend among vegan businesses or organizations or companies where sometimes, and this is certainly not always the case, but sometimes there can be this almost, hey, we all have to bear the burden together.

You know, we’re doing it for the animals. So it’s ok for us to run ourselves into the ground because, you know, we care so much about this issue. It’s an emotionally charged issue for a lot of us. And hey, like maybe the hours aren’t ideal or maybe you’re going beyond your job description or maybe what, you know, whatever it is that would maybe typically not be required at your regular 9 to 5 or would be an expectation is almost like this subliminal message of, hey, do a little bit more.

You can like we can get, we can all give a little bit more. And I think that that kind of whether it’s outright stated or not messaging can really lead somebody towards burnout and that compassion fatigue where it’s like you get to the end of the day and you do maybe have said like justify to yourself. Yeah, it’s ok for me to overwork myself because it’s for this cause.

But then you kind of end up not hating or having disdain for it, but like just kind of feeling this like numbness towards the cause that you once felt so strongly about. And obviously this isn’t unique. Like you said to vegans, you can experience this. Like, health care is really common place that I’ve heard it like friends who are nurses. When I was in school, I studied exercise science and I had a lot of shared classes with nurses or people who are dealing more kind of in inpatient

settings and everyone has a little bit of a different experience and a different tolerance, I guess you could say. But I think if you’re not really being mindful about how and it doesn’t have to be work. But work, I think is one place where this comes up a lot, the workplace is affecting you, then you might find yourself in a position where a job that you once loved and a cause that you once cared deeply

about kind of just starts to

become something that doesn’t have that same. You don’t have that same vigor for anymore. Is that something that you’ve heard from people or experienced yourself at all?

Athena:

Yeah. So I actually used to work in health care. So I used to work in the hospital and now I work for an animal rights organization. So I definitely have all the points of views on compassion fatigue. I’m gonna pull up a definition just because I feel like it’s sometimes helpful for me and others to just have it laid out. So this definition is just from Google and it just says while burnout and compassion fatigue are related, they are different.

Burnout is the physical mental and emotional exhaustion from prolonged and excessive work related stress, compassion fatigue results from internalizing and being impacted by the emotions and trauma of those who are suffering. So, like you said, in health care, people are suffering in animal rights organizations, animals are suffering.

So compassion fatigue is the result of being impacted, seeing all the, all those that are suffering, all of those that are suffering around you. So when I was in health care, it’s so interesting because I would say I definitely like compassion fatigue, working in both industries are gonna happen to an extent. And I feel like with animals though, it’s something that it’s like such a bigger trigger.

And I think that’s because animals just have no idea what’s going on and you can’t like explain things to them. They have no understanding. So like when I was in the hospital, I, I did notice that I started to I wouldn’t say I lacked like IW I never there was never a point where I was lacking empathy or like where that feeling of like, you know, wanting to help someone goes away, but you do start to feel like you do start to become so much more immune to the suffering around you that it

almost, it almost becomes kind of normal. It’s just like, ok, yeah, people are suffering every single day. This happens like you’re suffering, they’re suffering, everyone’s suffering. And that’s, that is how it is. When you’re working in a hospital, everyone is really, really hurting. And I don’t think you’re, you’re, I think your compassion never truly goes away for anyone, of course, and your empathy never goes away for anyone but you do start to your, your feelings do

become kind of how you were saying like just a little bit more minimized, just like, OK, same thing, different day. And with animal rights, I think it’s very similar. It’s like you see this happened to this animal, this happened to that animal, this happened to this animal, all the, all the things and it does become just like you just, you’re just taking so much in taking so much suffering in that eventually.

It’s just like, OK, like I’ve, I’ve seen enough, I’ve heard enough like whatever I’m done with this. and you still feel compassion, you still feel empathy, but it’s, it’s so tough to take it in every day that I think we start to diso disassociate a little bit, maybe with the reality of just like, OK, I just don’t even want to deal with this today. I don’t want to see this today. But I think your examples are great because it’s very true that I also do think animal rights organizations

and any organization that has a good cause a good mission tends to use that against their employees of like, OK, well, if you care about the cost, then we want to put in the work and it’s like you need to also have balance because you’re never gonna be able to put in like your full self and your full heart into something when you don’t have the time or the energy for it. So I think everything you said was, was great and you gave great examples too.

Ben:

No, and I appreciate you providing the definition and the difference, the distinction between those two things because there is a difference like it might be subtle, but it was something that I didn’t even realize until you kind of just clarified it there. So that was really helpful. And I think there is a lot of nuance between these different things.

Like you said, there’s almost a little bit of a dissociation. And one of the things that I was thinking about was as vegans. When you decide to make a change to your lifestyle, that limits to the extent you can, the cruelty and the suffering that we inflict on animals that often I think is spurred on from some sort of event, whether that be you watch a documentary or it’s maybe a culmination of lots of things over the years, these little realizations and these little events that add up.

And I think that once you make that decision for yourself, of course, it’s a decision that you have to continue to make. But I think it’s a common experience for many vegans that it’s almost like this light switch moment where you go from saying like, OK, I’ve tolerated enough of this. It’s time for me to take a stand and stand up for what I believe in and decide that like from this day forward, this is the way that I’m choosing to live my life.

And I think that sometimes I’m at least speaking for myself from my own experience. It’s almost like you go on this journey from OK, you make that decision and then you become the angry vegan and you become the person who starts telling all your friends and family about, you know, all the awful things that are happening. This is, this was me at least.

And I’m like guys like I know I was, you know, I was the biggest meat eater out of all my friends. And so like when I told them this, they were shocked and then I told my family, my family were actually pretty open and accepting which I’m grateful for. but you go from like doing this angry vegan is outraged and you’re talking about it all the time.

And then over time, I think people get used to that, maybe you get a little bit tired of the debates, the conversations. And then it’s almost like, like at this point or not, at this point, like, once I made that decision, I knew, like, deep down, like this, deep knowing that I was never going to go back to eating animal products again. or it’s not just eating, you know, consuming animal products in, in any sense.

but I guess the point that I’m trying to get to is you almost become desensitized, I think in a way. And you like now when I, if I watch like a one of these documentaries, it’s like sometimes every like six months or a year, I will re-watch one of them and it’s almost like it kind of reinvigorates or reminds me why I am vegan or it’s like I see something like one of these videos, which is a whole another topic I wonder that I actually just thought of right now is like, how do you think social

media impacts compassion, fatigue, especially if feeding yourself like, oh, like videos from

slaughterhouses or animal animal rights, animal activism stuff. content. A lot of people who feel really deeply and are really angry and are really outspoken. How is that impacting you and your mental health? and your ability to be an effective advocate or your ability to even just remain vegan.

So that’s something that I think about is like, I almost feel like sometimes I become numb and not forget why I am doing what I’m doing, but it’s almost like it’s helpful to have that reminder. And I also respect the fact that some people, who are vegan never want to see those things again because they just, you know, it’s not something that, you know, it’s traumatic to, to watch it happen, for them and I can totally respect that as well.

Yeah, and like you said, you almost have to dissociate in order to not feel like, oh my God, how does the rest of the world not see this and have that really like eat at you. What are your thoughts on? That was a very long monologue?

Athena:

Oh, that’s OK. Mine was yeah, I think social media is an interesting topic to bring up into it. I think, I think compassion fatigue, like I, I guess instead of saying which I’m the one who said it, but instead of saying dissociation, it’s kind of like an emotional withdrawal where you kind of just you’re just, you’re taking in so much that eventually you’re just like, no, nope, I’m taking my emotions back and I’m just, I’m just, yeah, I’m just not there anymore.

But I think it, it can be very overwhelming, especially with social media, like you said, and, and nowadays we can experience compassion fatigue in just so many different ways. social media is so such an unnatural way to be experiencing our emotions. Because one second, we’re watching a video that’s, you know, making us laugh and crack up.

We scroll once and it’s like now we’re crying because we’re watching this video about this dog that got saved and now we’re crying even more because this alligator was killed. And now we’re happy again because we’re watching a comedian. It’s just such an unnatural way for us to be experiencing our emotions. which I think that also does play into compassion, fatigue of seeing so much sadness kind of spread into a day without us even realizing it if you’re on social media.

But it, it, it is an, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty interesting and I haven’t done much research on the studies of how it affects us necessarily in that way, but I’m sure there have been studies and if there haven’t been many, I’m sure they’re gonna be coming out in a matter of time. But compassion fatigue really, there, there are signs as well.

Like, you know, being very stressed, like when you first go vegan, I think like you said, you are really like, amped up and you’re just like ready to go. Like I’m vegan. This is why I saw these documentaries, I saw these videos, I read all these things like you’re ready. But after years and years of being vegan, you’re tired and that’s kind of where the emotional withdrawal comes in.

but, you know, with real compassion, fatigue, it would be, you know, feeling very stressed, maybe not taking care of yourself very much blaming others, especially like in the hospital. I think it’s people kind of, I wouldn’t say people do it often but starting to blame others for their suffering, I think is something that can happen, especially for people that you might quote unquote, consider like a drug

seeker or et cetera.

You do start to kind of blame others for their own suffering, which isn’t necessarily fair with animals, I don’t know that that’s necessarily as common just because why are we gonna blame my animals? Go on, they’re not doing that. But and just, you know, kind of complaining about life all the time complaining how hard life is and how awful life is.

Like, those are all definitely big signs of compassion fatigue, maybe not being able to sleep as well. It, it, it’s definitely, it’s, it’s a tough one, especially with, especially with such a big topic like veganism because the thing is, it’s like, well, anything honestly veganism, health care, health problems aren’t going away. Animals being killed isn’t going away overnight.

Like it’s, it’s just not happening. So I think it’s really, really easy to experience that compassion fatigue because at the end of the day, we’re mostly seeing the negatives, we’re not seeing all the positives that have been happening because we want to keep the movement going. So we don’t focus on those positive things and those good things that have happened.

But there’s been so many good things that have happened, especially in the vegan movement. Like, I mean, there’s just the amount of vegan food that’s available nowadays is absolutely insane. The fact that almost like most beauty products are now vegan and cruelty free. there’s just like the circuses stopped using animals, like the biggest ones like Ringling bros. There’s so many, so many good things, but then there’s also so many bad things. And when we only focus on those

things, I think that’s when really compassionate can really, really set in and can make us angry like you said, which is another side like another sign. I’m like, oh yeah, we’re freaking angry. And yeah, I think that is now my long winded response to your thoughts, but I think social media does have a big impact because we’re just, we’re seeing so many negatives and we, and we take that in so we can just keep monologuing back and forth.

Ben:

That’s good. No, I I like the way this is going. I think that one point like you brought up when you were talking about in health care setting, maybe we end up taking out our frustration or that lack of compassion shows in the way that we interact with the patients that we’re working with or potentially I guess even coworkers, if you feel like, hey, usually I’m like, we’re all a team, we’re in this together.

But you might, if you start to suffer from co compassion fatigue, maybe it’s like, oh no, this person is not helping enough and I’m over, you know, just like less tolerance, I guess for coworkers and less compassion for maybe what they’re experiencing as well. And then I also was like, before you said it, I was thinking about like, well, how would that apply to animals?

Because obviously, like, we can’t, you know, we’re not gonna take it out on them. But I think it may be the way it would manifest would be lack of compassion for people who don’t understand veganism or don’t understand that cause. And that can also, I think be detrimental because if we aren’t coming to those conversations from a place of grounded and a place of compassion, then we’re probably not entering the conversation in a way that is going to lead to a productive outcome or a

productive back and forth because yeah, if we’re coming in like with no compassion for the other person, like compassion, when I think of compassion, I think of like kind of trying to put yourself in that person’s shoes. And like, understand maybe that all their life experiences have led them to the point where they are right now. You don’t know obviously, like nearly as much about that person as they know about themselves.

And so it’s coming from a place of open mindedness. We weren’t all vegan at one point, we had to get to that point. So trying to remember those things, but all of those, all of those like, and then also understanding that, hey, when I come into this conversation, there are ways that maybe I can frame things that, we put them in less of a defensive position.

All these things that you might consider when trying to have a conversation with somebody who maybe hasn’t quite understood the argument or veganism. You might just, that might just all go out the window. If you’re suffering from compassion fatigue, you’re just like f you, you’re not getting it like you need to get with it, like just go watch this freaking Earthling ed talk and you’ll understand or something like that.

And that, that I think that can be harmful as well just from a you know, bringing people to the cause. But I, another instance I thought about what you were talking was like maybe teachers working with young Children or anyone who works maybe in daycare or something like that. I could see that being tough because if you’re working with Children, Children are, you know, it’s kind of like this, not this like midway point, but it’s almost like kind of human, but almost like has, has

these like obviously humans are animals but like, like animal, like quality as well and that they don’t have fully mental capabilities amongst them. So they might not be treating you in the way that you wanna be treated. And, obviously you can’t really take your frustrations out on the kids. So that, that’s a hard one as well. like you can’t really be like snippy or talk back to, the kids in the way that maybe you could a patient.

I mean, you can. But usually that doesn’t work out too well. And I think the last thing that I wanted to say was I thought the point that you brought up about combating compassion fatigue is like, how do we, how do we work to remedy this? How can we like recognize the signs and symptoms and maybe how can we take steps to minimize it? Because I don’t think you can ever completely eliminate.

It, I almost feel, feel like it’s like a meter, like it starts filling up, filling up, filling up or like a bucket and then it gets to a tipping point and that’s when a lot of these symptoms start to show up that you mentioned. But I think like you said, focusing on what are the positives, like what, you know, maybe today you had going back, I I’ll keep using the examples we have been using, you had five patients who really gave you a hard time.

But you had one patient who smiled at you and told you what a great job you are doing. And said that you made their day, like if you can focus on that one person that you’re impacting and maybe understand the other people are hurting themselves and it’s not easy for them to find that compassion right now, then that can help or focusing on like, like you said, hey, right now it feels like this is hopeless and we’re not making a difference.

Sometimes it feels like that. But let’s look objectively at all the ways that we’ve made progress, whether that be within our company, our team or just a movement in general. I think focusing on

those positives can really make a big difference in reframing because like you said, I think we do have that, that negativity bias where it’s a lot easier to focus on.

Like a classic example is you post something on social media and maybe you get 100 positive comments and you get one negative comment and we focus on the one negative instead of the 99 positives. I think that’s a really common shared experience that highlights the the negativity bias. And obviously, again, tying into social media, we are more likely to click on things that outrage us, make us upset and that’s why they get shown to us.

And these algorithms are designed to show us more of the stuff we click on. So, if we’re clicking on more negative things, that’s what’s gonna get shown to us. so it just becomes a, a bit of a vicious cycle.

Athena:

Yeah. Well, I agree with everything you said. and I do so, I do think that capac fatigue, just everyone listening fully understands too. I, I believe it is directly related to working with individuals, like, working directly with trauma and tying in social media. I think it’s just more relatable for everyone, but it is more focused on people who actually do work with trauma.

And it’s it is the, it’s the fault of caring. It is the the con of caring too much is, you know, experiencing something like compassion fatigue. But I think social media is a great way for people who don’t work in trauma to just have that better understanding of like, OK, this is, this is an example of maybe how it could feel.

Ben:

But yeah, I think that would a therapist be an example of somebody who would experience compassion fatigue then like with their patients.

Athena:

Yeah, because they are experiencing the trauma to their patients, especially when the patients are describing something so vividly and so terrible people, the hospital, people working in animal rights, especially people who are working like in the field, maybe someone in war, someone who’s working, you know, with animals like in person or in labs or whatever it is.

So yeah, that’s a great example. But I think yeah, there’s like you said, I think there’s great ways to combat it, which is to take care of yourself by trying to, which is so like, you know, we hear it all the time cliche, but it’s true, like trying to focus on some of the positives is really, really beneficial and of course, not going over the top where you’re just dismissing all of your feelings, which I know you would never I recommend.

but it, it is important to have the, have the balance of that and just, you know, take care of yourself

going to therapy if you can afford it, getting good quality sleep, talking to someone can be really helpful, especially someone that’s in your field because of course they, you know, they’re gonna be able to empathize with you a lot more and understand you a lot more than someone maybe outside of your field.

But, yeah, I think it, it, it’s a really, it’s a really sucky feeling because, you know, you go into these fields because you care so much because you want to help these people or you wanna help the animals and it’s a really, really detrimental feeling to them, feel so withdrawn and pulled back from wanting to do these things or listen these things, read these things, hear about these things because you wanna help the people, you wanna help the animals, but it’s exhausting, it’s

tiring and it, it does take a toll on you. So it’s so important to take care of your mental health and physical health. which, you know, we’re all about that physical health here. but I, I, yeah, I think, yeah, staying active is helpful, taking everything else.

I already said it is very helpful. but yeah, I think, I think we, we had some great points. It’s, I think it’s a shorter, shorter topic, but it’s a needed one because it is, it is prevalent in a lot of people’s lives. So I think this was a good one.

Ben:

Yeah, I think, especially because probably a lot of listeners of this podcast work in a field where they’re working closely with people or maybe they just fall more on that end of. yeah, that, that compassionate side of things. I obviously, I believe everyone has the capacity to be compassionate or at least most people. But I think we may be as vegans or people who care a lot about animals or, they tend to feel that even more strongly, in a lot of cases.

And, yeah, it, it, it can be hard, it can be tricky. I feel like we have hit on most of the major points. Was there anything one thing I guess I wanted to ask you? And I’m totally fine if there’s no, nothing that comes to mind here. as someone who you said you’ve experienced this yourself was there any kind of maybe like unconventional form of self care that you found like, worked for you obviously kind of the basic things that you hit on there in terms of like physical and mental health

care. any kind of like, I guess not tips or tricks, but like, think something that you maybe found particularly profound or helpful when it ca came to compassion fatigue that you were able to kind of implement that has made a difference.

Athena:

That’s a good question. Let me think about that. Well, that’s at first it’s just really noticing that the compassion fatigue is setting in could be difficult. So just really noticing how you’re feeling when you’re around patients or around clients or, or animals and just noticing, you know, your feelings towards them, your feelings towards others, your feelings inside.

Are you feeling super tired, stressed, anxious, sad, you know, really start to notice those things how

your empathy maybe shifted. And like I said, it, it doesn’t mean that you’re gonna be completely withdrawn, have no feelings towards anyone but your, your feelings do shift. And I think I was working night shift at the hospital and that’s where I really started to experience it, I think because I was, I was just so tired, I was exhausted.

Night shift is really, really difficult. And then I was also on like one of the busiest floors and it was during COVID so it was just so much going on all the time and it, it does become, it just becomes completely exhausting where you do care about your patients, of course, but you are just so drained that you you just, you just feel like you can’t take it anymore.

I think what helped me was the actually I really started to shift after I read the book The Magic by Rhonda. I don’t remember her last name. It’s a really woohoo book, but I just freaking loved it and I felt so like I just felt so good after reading the book, it, it was definitely just a, a lot about being more grateful and just experiencing more gratitude towards like in so many different capacities.

I think something that was big for me was just noticing being more grateful for every, every part of the environment around me in the workplace specifically. So I was, you know, starting to show more grat towards to, to gratitude towards like the people who are cleaning the people who, you know, are re like restocking all of the items, the people who are taking the labs for the patients, the the physical therapist who might have helped that day.

And I was just noticing like all these different parts because the hospital doesn’t run on, you know, nurses and doctors. There’s so many different people who are helping including like the the front desk that like people who are answering calls and people who are doing all the payment, payment forms and everything. But, and I think that really helped it really starting to focus on all of these, all these little things that add up to make my job easier.

Even if it is still feeling very draining and exhausting, I was starting to notice all those other pieces that were, that were tying into it. so that was something I think that is kind of unconventional, I guess. Also just not unconventional but going on lots of walks and listening to some of my favorite songs, I, I really, I really enjoyed that.

Yeah, I think those are, those are some, those are, that’s, that would be an unconventional thing. Everything else I would say is pretty basic. You know, like I said, exercising therapy, staying busy, hang out with friends. eating good vegan food like ice cream or a doughnut here and there

Ben:

definitely eating good vegan food is a, is a 11 to add to the list there. I felt like that was a really good one was gratitude I think was kind of the theme of what you were hitting on and it’s almost counterintuitive because you’re like, you know, why should I be grateful for this circumstance that I’m in? And like, I don’t have anything to be grateful for.

But gratitude is one of those things where it’s like you feel like you before you really embrace it. You feel like you’re giving something away, but really you’re getting something by showing gratitude, which is something that I think it takes practice to realize is like the more gratitude you can find in just simple daily things, the more that you kind of just feel this sense of at least for myself, like love and

compassion.

And yeah, you feel you, it just makes you feel good, like being grateful for things, makes you feel good. And even if sometimes I’m like, I’ve gone through periods of times where I don’t always journal, but like, sometimes I’ll try to like, get into a habit of, ok, let me just write down like one thing I was grateful for today. Especially if I’m maybe going through a bit of a tougher time.

It helps me to kind of stay grounded and recognize that I am very lucky and blessed to have a lot of things in my life. And even if I’m like, oh, I don’t want to journal about this, I’m not grateful for anything. And then I actually think about it and then I can usually think of like five things or 10 things and I end up feeling a lot better afterwards.

Athena:

It just expands the more you think about it because you, there, there’s just so many little things it’s like, wow, look at this. I can just move my hand. I don’t know how I’m doing it. I’m just doing it, like, how, how grateful can we be for little things like that? Having eyesight, having eyebrows. I don’t know because I like them. They’re just, there’s just so many little things that do add up over time.

So, yeah, I think it’s, it, it is definitely, like you said, one of those things that’s like, ok, du be grateful. But really, if you really, really think about it, it makes such a difference and, and you do feel good like you said, like you, it in the moment, it might be a little annoying to think about but you feel good when you start to think about things you’re grateful for like it’s just an automatically an

automatic energy shift. No matter I, I think people maybe overuse it but I don’t think you ever could overuse it because honestly it’s just, it’s a, it’s a good one to practice it.

Ben:

Is it, is anything else you feel like we missed or you wanna hit on before? I guess I can take us out of here,

Athena:

I guess. Just take care of yourself. Whether you work in any of these industries. If you work with animals, clients, patients, et cetera, just take care of yourself and we’re here for you. We, we know it’s hard and we also know you can get through it. So message us, ask us any questions. We’re, we’re here for you for that.

Ben:

Yeah, on the theme of gratitude. Thank you all for listening. We’re grateful for you. because we wouldn’t be doing this without you. So if you are finding that you need someone in your corner to help

you with figuring out, hey, how do I schedule some time to get these walks in to, you know, take care of myself. How can I prioritize these things? What’s important, what’s not important?

That’s what we do at vegan protein. So reach out to us Vegan proteins.com. If you’re interested in one on one coaching, we offer that we have our muscles by Brussels membership as well. Get in touch with us. Hit the contact button in Vegan proteins.com and thank you for listening to another episode. I’m Ben, I’m Athena and we’ll catch you in the next one too.

Athena:

Yeah. Oh.