Ep 189 – Walking A Razor’s Edge

TRANSCRIPT:

Giacomo:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of vegan proteins, muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Giacomo.

Dani:

And I’m Dani.

Giacomo:

And this is episode 189.

Dani:

Well, welcome back, everybody. Happy October. This is our second episode of October. We, as of recording this, we’ll be down in Atlantic City with the whole vegan proteins team, which is so exciting. We did this last year. It was awesome. Not only did we get to do some cool stuff, like last year, we did a photo shoot. We’re not doing that this year, but we did that. We did an escape room.

Giacomo:

We got out, by the way, because we’re awesome.

Dani:

And it also is the thing that got Kristina absolutely addicted to escapers.

Giacomo:

Yeah. Yep.

Dani:

But we also had a massive, like, powwow where we basically determined what all of the content, all of the podcast topics for the most part, and YouTube and stuff was gonna be for the following year. So, listen, we ask you all the time, guys, if you have something that you want us to talk about, let us know, and we will talk about it.

If we feel competent enough to speak about it, we will. This is the time right now. Right now. Coacheganeganproteins.com. email us. What topic do you want to hear? Because that’s what we’re writing as we speak.

Giacomo:

hmm. I have to. Well, I don’t want to create any spoilers, but that movie that we watched over the weekend was outrageous. Yes, outrageous. I shocked that it was a major.

Dani:

Motion picture, so I’m tickled because normally, if we go see a movie that turns out to be incredibly deranged, it’s my fault, and I cannot live it down that I made us go watch something so effed up. But guess who didn’t pick it this time? It was Giacomo. We went on a date, in fact, to see a movie called the substance.

Giacomo:

Don’t watch it. Wow.

Dani:

That’s all I have to say about that movie was, wow. I thought it was gonna be, like, horror satire, which it did kind of start as, like, horror satire, but then at some point, it turned into just, like, straight up, like, body horror, just body gore, like, pretty much the entire time. It was the most body horror I think I’ve ever seen in a movie. It turned into, like, a comedy at some point. It was. It was a. It was the most unhinged thing I’ve seen in maybe ever.

Giacomo:

It’s up there that’s saying a lot, because you go for things on purpose that can get you to become unhinged. So the fact that you’re saying, no.

Dani:

No, no, they’re not getting them to get me. No. Nothing’s getting me to become unhinged. I just like to watch unhinged things. Sure, I’m hinged.

Giacomo:

Listen, between the both of us, I looked away from the screen less.

Dani:

Yeah. It was so disgusting, it kind of shocked me.

Giacomo:

I thought you were gonna have your eyes glued to the screen the whole time, and you’re gonna be looking at me for shock value, wondering when I was gonna be like, I can’t, I can’t. And you were like, no, don’t look. And I committed. I totally committed. And I gotta say the.

Dani:

I love horror, but I don’t love gore. Like, I like creepy psychological. Keep you up at night, question your life choices.

Giacomo:

That movie will keep you up. And I came home, I looked at my cat, I’m like, please invade my brain, Xander, because whatever I just saw needs to leave my. That’s it. I can’t. I just can’t.

Dani:

Despite the fact that I lowkey wish I had a podcast where I could just talk about films, that’s not what we are. And this podcast topic is actually, I think, more gonna be me sort of asking questions and trying to think through a concept that popped into my head a couple days ago when we were talking about competing and Giacomo was doing that thing that he does where he tries to convince me to compete again.

Giacomo:

He’s trying to convince you to compete?

Dani:

You literally said if we did this podcast, it would basically be you trying to convince me to compete for an hour.

Giacomo:

I was teasing. I’ll tease. I can, but not really. I don’t actually wanna.

Dani:

We’ll see.

Giacomo:

Go ahead. Like that.

Dani:

So my question was, first of all, I was thinking about competing. Not like I was thinking about doing it, but I was thinking about the competition. I was thinking about the figure category and how much it has changed in the last few years and how they are so much bigger and so much leaner.

But honestly, mostly bigger. They are so much bigger than they used to be in figure. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I think it’s incredibly impressive that these natural athletes are able to achieve that level of muscularity and then get that lean like it’s jaw dropping.

Giacomo:

Well, let me ask you a question. If it’s not possible for you to be the absolute best of the best, is it not worth doing to you? Because I feel like those athletes that are big like that, they’re the ones that are taking the top half of the pro stage as far as placings are concerned. And me personally I don’t feel like that needs to be the goal. And it’s like, if you can’t do that, what’s the point of trying to take it as far as you can?

Like, I even think of myself, for example. I don’t see myself ever doing that. If I’m lucky enough to go pro because of my genetics and just my life path and whatever, it’s a combination of two and the effort that I have or have not put in a. I don’t ever, I honestly, truly don’t see myself being at the top of the pack on a pro level or even the top half of the pack on a pro level, but that’s not going to stop me from competing.

So I guess I ask you, because you’re leading with these girls. Look, this bit. But, I mean, I feel like you can get pretty far competing without needing to take it there, because I do agree. Those girls are. They have muscle.

Dani:

Yeah. Yeah, they do. And it’s like I said, it’s amazing. I don’t want to take anything away from it, but, yeah, it’s becoming a class that I feel like I probably, probably. I don’t want to say definitely, but I’d have a hard time, I think, hanging at some of those higher ranks, for sure. But that’s kind of, that’s just what got me started thinking about this is like, okay, well, what’s, what’s the point

if I. If I can’t not be the best, I’m not insane. Although apparently now we know the best, and she’s on our team. Maddie McConnell won the Jorton cup. She’s vegan, natural.

Giacomo:

Gosh, what an athlete.

Dani:

hmm.

Giacomo:

Seriously.

Dani:

Absolutely stunning. Oh, gosh, such, such a great physique. But, but also, if she’s the new standard, which it appears that she is, that’s, that’s tough. That’d be tough for me. And I have, I have less than zero interest in going into the bikini category. No shade to the bikini athletes at all. That’s not my vibe. It’s just not my vibe.

Giacomo:

It’s like, I don’t want to be in the physique category. It’s not my vibe either. But that doesn’t mean I can’t keep chasing the dream to be on the bottom half of the pro stage as far as who places. And I feel like you could be there, honestly, if I’m judging what I think you’re capable of. So I guess that’s where I wonder, and it’s off topic, but there’s some context here.

Like, what is your motive to compete or to not compete? And what are your versions to it, as far as where you would place, not what it would do to you? Although that would be a good segue to what we’re talking about.

Dani:

What are my motivations to compete? I love it. I mean, I’ve always, I’ve loved the, the art of prep, and the main driver of prep being successful is the fact that you are going to be practically naked on a stage in front of people. That’s highly motivating, as it turns out, to get your shit done that you need to do and, you know, the real motivator.

Yeah, of course. Everybody wants to place. Well, of course you do. But really, I like the journey of, like, learning stuff about myself, trying to see if I can beat myself. Like, did all this work I put in make a difference between the last look and the current look. Those are things that I really enjoy about bodybuilding. And this actually, I mean, a little bit of it is the fact that I, like, I don’t know if that’s the game now.

Maybe I don’t want to play. But more than that, it’s the risks associated with competing that have me, like, really take pause. And when I say pause, I don’t mean like a beat. I mean, it’s been a few years, and I’m still thinking about this stuff. Because there comes a point where all of the benefits of bodybuilding, both physical and mental, that not only do you get diminishing returns, they go the other direction.

They start becoming a detriment. Bodybuilding eventually, at some point in prep, starts to become a detriment to your physical and mental health. And that final leg of prep is, it’s pretty hellacious. And I mean, you’re doing it of your own volition, it’s your own choice to do it. But it is really, really brutal. And I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to do that again.

I mean, I’m. Let me take that back. I’m certain that I don’t want to experience some of those things that I have experienced in prep again. And I don’t think it’s because I did anything wrong in those preps. I think I did everything literally the best way that you could, the safest way you could, the sanest way you could. And I still dealt with a lot of negatives from it, and I don’t know if I want to do that.

But I’m also not ready to be like, bye bye, bodybuilding in general, because it is a sport that I love. I love being active in the community, going out to the shows, coaching competitors. I love that stuff. So the question that I posed to Giacomo in the car the other day, which is what led to this podcast, is, what if I could just find that line of optimal bodybuilding where you are getting all the benefits, the health benefits, the

mental benefits of bodybuilding right before it starts to go off a cliff? Like, how do you find that line? Can you find that line? Can someone live there? Is that possible?

Giacomo:

I love how I can’t remember this, but when you’re sadistic, that’s when you like to inflict pain on yourself, correct?

Dani:

No.

Giacomo:

Masochistic?

Dani:

Yes.

Giacomo:

Thank you.

Dani:

You’re welcome.

Giacomo:

You’re not masochistic enough to enjoy that part where mental and physical health takes a toll and there’s no choice, regardless of how it affects you, there’s a.

Dani:

Sense of pride in it. There’s a sense of pride in being able to do something other people can’t do. Right? Like, most people won’t say that out loud, but it’s true.

Giacomo:

Oh, yeah.

Dani:

There is something that makes you feel very proud about being able to, which is also kind of shitty because it’s like, why should other people do it? Like, it’s not, it’s not something like normal people should do. And this is just an example of the weird disordered pattern that your brain starts to get into in prep, which

sounds a lot like some of the thoughts people have with anorexia of like, oh, I’m so much better than you because I don’t eat. Like, whoa, that’s a thing. You know what I mean?

Giacomo:

It’s definitely a rabbit hole that you can fall down if you don’t have your wits about you and you don’t know how to pivot. You can fall prey to that, unfortunately, that kind of pattern.

Dani:

Like, am I that masochistic? No. Like I said, there’s things about it that one can enjoy and feel proud about.

Giacomo:

But I.

Dani:

Some of the things that happen to me, and I’m the only one that I can speak to. I mean, I have clients. I see things that happen to them. Not all the things that happen to me happen to them. Sometimes things happen to them that didn’t happen to me. Whoops. But your hormones getting super jacked up, and that’s saying something coming from me where I don’t even have a cycle because of my endometriosis treatment.

Giacomo:

So regardless of how you feel about it, mindset wise, there are some actual biological consequences that you may not be able to get past. You can’t fight biology. And if certain things are happening because you’re doing this thing where you’re playing psychological warfare and winning and competing on warfare on yourself, but the consequences are that your health

doesn’t just take a temporary toll, doesn’t necessarily take a nosedive, but, like, your health is sort of compromised, is it worth it, the risk? Is that what you’re thinking?

Dani:

Are you talking about mentally or physically?

Giacomo:

Both, I guess. Mentally you can.

Dani:

Yeah. I mean, that’s the whole point. That’s the whole question I’m posing for this podcast of where is the line right before that.

Giacomo:

That’s a very good question. Where do you draw that line? I mean, I think it’s. I think there’s a certain. It’s funny, I was on a call with someone yesterday, and they were like, show me some pictures of what you look like. Because they were trying to get an idea to get motivated about what they wanted to look like. And I didn’t have any pictures of them.

We were just in a casual conversation. I’m a bodybuilder. It’s not a weird question. It’s a bodybuilder. So I showed him some pictures, and I was like, this is what it looks like. At the beginning of a contest prep. There is absolutely no reason to get any leaner than this. I did not give them the context and begin to explain the fact that contest prep would were to last another 20 to 35 weeks after the fact and what I would look like after the fact.

I said, there’s no point in showing you what it looks like after this. You do not want this. You do not need this. This is what you need. This is what you would want to look like. And he said, what’s that? I said, that’s basically like, that’s an athletic, that’s a good athletic body fat range for you.

Dani:

I mean, that’s very specific to you.

Giacomo:

It’s just one example of how you don’t even have that discussion with somebody unless they’re looking to compete. And it’s an example of where you can go without crossing a line, where not only will the returns diminish on what you can gain as far as discipline, mental fortitude, the physical benefits of knowing

how to control your body, in that way, these things start to diminish, and the consequences and the risk of consequences start to increase. There’s a certain line, right.

Dani:

But I don’t. I mean, I actually, I don’t think it’s the way my body looks at the beginning of prep, I can absolutely take it further than that and stay healthy and probably healthier, honestly, because I’m going through quite the gaining phase. I’m probably gonna end up heavier than I actually need to be, you know? So I guess, I mean, really, that’s my question.

And I guess, you know, most of the time when we make these podcasts, it’s because I specifically, you know, we have something we want to say to people for themselves. Like, hey, maybe you should do this, maybe you shouldn’t do this. Here’s our experience with this. But this podcast is different because it’s actually. It’s not about our audience here at all, whom we super appreciate you being here.

It’s more like these are actual things that I’m thinking about for myself. And I thought that it would be maybe something interesting for you guys to hear, more so than for you to, like, necessarily take this advice and run with it. Because it’s not advice. I don’t even have an answer. It’s just questions.

Giacomo:

You know, I do think that there are different set points, and I do think that genetics dictate that, and I think that lifestyle can sort of impact how things feel and where you’re at. So, in other words, like, let’s say you’re genetically predisposed to being able to be lean and be comfortable, but your lifestyle is kind of crap. Meaning, like, you’ve been eating like crap for a while, you haven’t taken care of yourself, and blah, blah, blah, you put 20 pounds more on you than you

should. But when you get there, when you start taking better care of yourself and you get lean, it won’t be as hard for you to maintain, even though that was your lifestyle for like, say, ten years. Compare that to someone else who is genetically predisposed to being a little less lean. It’s just. That’s just how you were built. Not how you were hardwired, not how you hardware yourself, how you were built. Yeah, well, it’s gonna. Some of this will be dictated by genetics.

Dani:

Oh, absolutely. Because, yeah, everybody’s super different. Some people, if they are not paying attention to their nutrition, like, they’ll get real skinny, you know? Some people, if they’re not paying attention to their nutrition, they’ll pack on pounds. So I think, yeah, it definitely would depend on the person and their own body’s proclivities.

But for myself, I don’t. I mean, here’s the thing. Like, I kind of feel like I’m pretty close to the thing I’m talking about. Right now. And I’d be curious, since you’re on the outside, like, this is not the heaviest that I’ve ever. That I’ve been in an off season or a building season, probably by, like, ten pounds, but I’m still, like, probably 1820 pounds above stage weight. So I don’t know, maybe there’s, like, five or seven pounds in there that I could. I don’t know.

I don’t know what happens if I lose those five to seven pounds, right? Do I start to deal with some of those negative repercussions? Do I become more food focused? Do I start thinking about at the end of the night when everybody’s gone to bed, like, hey, I could just raid that cat cabinet and eat everything in it? Does that happen in five pounds? Does that happen in ten pounds? Does that happen in 15 pounds? Where. Where is that point, my honest opinion.

Giacomo:

For you, because I know you, I’d say ten to 15 if it were seven. I think what I. Well, if it were closer to, like, five as opposed to seven, I’m not saying those things wouldn’t happen.

Dani:

You all heard it. My husband just asked me to lose ten to 15 pounds.

Giacomo:

I think you should gain ten pounds in bulk.

Dani:

Just kidding.

Giacomo:

What I’m saying is that, yes, some of those things will happen, but some of those things are just because you’ve been used to living a certain way, you have access to certain kinds of foods, your life has a certain amount of stress. This is where you can play the game and you can be better.

If you can gain some benefit to how you live your life, you can be healthier, have a better mindset, have better discipline. But if you start. If you continue down that path, whatever, numbers don’t matter. At some point, you will cross that line, and I’ll be like, oh, crap.

Dani:

Right. And I’m not just talking about the food focus, like, at what.

Giacomo:

We’Re not going.

Dani:

I hate the sound of bones cracking, purposely. That just almost made me gag right under this microphone. Hence me looking away with the body horror yesterday.

Giacomo:

Sorry.

Dani:

So I’m not even just talking about the food focus. Like, what happened? At what weight does my hair start falling out? Here’s the kicker. You won’t know for three months. Isn’t that fun? You don’t know when you’ve crossed that line until about three months later. How awful is that? At what weight does my skin start breaking out like crazy? At what point do I become a raging biatchen?

Because that happens at a certain point. And I don’t just mean for me, I mean, like, in general, there’s a certain weight or body fat set point or whatever. And again, it’s different for everybody that people will drop below and they become a miserable person to be around. Awful. And it takes a lot of self awareness to know if you are becoming that person or not. And sometimes you can only see it in hindsight.

Where is that line? Where’s the line where your performance starts to drop off in the gym? I mean, where’s the line where your focus at work starts to be less awesome? Like, these are all my questions. These are all things that happen during contest prep. And I don’t think it’s necessarily the competition. It’s getting that lean right? Are those things I want to do at this point in my life.

Giacomo:

There’s only r1 draw here to doing something like that. It’s looking a certain way. There is nothing else. There is no other benefit here. There is the carrot on the stick for anyone here is you want to see what you look like when you’re holding onto muscle that your body shouldn’t be holding on to while you have continued to lose a lot of fat.

And it gives you this larger than life, completely unrealistic shape for a short period of time. Because short of that, there is. I can’t think of a single other benefit here, can you?

Dani:

Just loving bodybuilding, just loving the experience in general.

Giacomo:

Experience, that kind of crazy experience that you really can’t identity.

Dani:

Continuing to feel like you’re part of a community when you aren’t actively competing, but you have for a very long time. Yeah, like, I don’t know, it’s just these are, they’re kind of, hmm. You know, they’re not questions that super matter at the end of the day, because I’m fine the way I am right now. Like, I’m pretty happy with the way things are going for me right now from an athletic standpoint.

But this is probably the longest amount of time I’ve gone without having, like, a specific goal. You know, I think the thing I’m talking about right now, I’m pretty sure that is the goal of talk about a hard thing to define, though. You know, goals are supposed to be measurable and time bound, and it is this, like, it’s not. So I don’t, I don’t really, I don’t know if it’s the best goal.

Giacomo:

Well, the fun thing about this conversation is I feel like I often reflect on my own or others paths that are bodybuilding competitively. Their goal, because it’s so much of what we do, and I use that as a way to be like, okay, well, how can we use the benefit of how you prepare someone to be that lean but not actually take someone there? I have this conversation with clients constantly.

Dani:

Oh, definitely.

Giacomo:

This is the. Honestly, it’s like the creme de la creme. It’s like, the best thing you could possibly do for someone is give them all the benefit without having them cross a line where they are gonna have to.

Dani:

Right. But it’s like, it’s hard. Is it a line, or is it a window? Right. You know, is it. Is it a hard line, like, a hard, skinny little line that you cross, or is there a window of optimal? Right. Like, above it, your body fat’s too high. There’s lots of health problems with that. Below this window, your body fat percentage is too low or your weight is too low.

There’s lots of problems with that. Trying to define where in this window is optimal is super challenging, and it’s going to be different for everyone. I was like, oh, I’ll run this experiment on myself. I’ll try to figure this out. I’ll try to document as much of it as possible. That’s only gonna help me, though, you know, I don’t know how.

How that could help other people, because, like, you know, if we were to use coach Alice as an example, she is naturally, like, so lean. She grew up real thin, you know, like, super lean. I am naturally not lean. So my experiment on myself wouldn’t help somebody like Alice. I don’t know. It’s just. It’s a lot to think about.

Giacomo:

You definitely don’t. How do I say this? It takes a certain kind of person to want this, and I. So it’s like, I like to tread lightly on using the quote unquote word healthy, right? Because I feel like there is a working model for this. And I was thinking in my head, like, this could be just how I explain how we coach everybody.

We just get into this place. That’s not true. Like, not everyone wants to put in that kind of effort, look that way, and feel that way, because it does require you living a certain kind of lifestyle.

Dani:

Yeah, it’s not like I’m saying, oh, what’s the best I can look without trying? That’s not what I’m saying. This is probably the best I can look without trying very hard, which is, you know, that’s not bad.

Giacomo:

It’s actually really good.

Dani:

That’s not true. I am trying. I still like getting my protein, going to the gym all the time, whatever. But it’s nothing compared to what is required in a prep. Nothing. Nothing.

Giacomo:

Toeing the line. Toeing the line where you’re not going to prep, but, like, you’re still relatively lean.

Dani:

Yeah. And I’m just thinking, like, where is that? Like, what? How many holidays and birthday parties and this and that? Do I have to say no to? And is that worth it for me? Ugh. It’s. It’s really kind of a tricky question. And to your point, I do think that this is what a lot of people do want.

Not everybody, but I think a lot of people want this. Anybody that’s ever said, I want to look like a bodybuilder, but I don’t want to compete. A phrase that I despise, but I know what they mean, and this is what they mean.

Giacomo:

Yeah. It’s unfortunate that we use the word athletic to describe body composition, because athletes have all kinds of body compositions and perform at the top of their game at all kinds of body compositions. Unfortunately, the textbook, definitely definition of an athletic body composition is what we have been talking about here over

and over and over again. But I think it’s important to make the distinction that athletic body compositions at the top of their game on an elite level are totally different.

Dani:

Huge spectrum. Huge.

Giacomo:

And then there’s even from a health based standpoint, I don’t feel like you need to be in an athletic body composition, using the word in a textbook kind of way to be really healthy. You can be outside of that and be plenty healthy. Oh, this is full of energy.

Dani:

This is a huge discussion that actually, I’ve avoided what you’re starting to talk about right now. I have avoided recording this podcast for seven years, eight years, maybe ten years, this concept of health at every size. Well, and maybe. Maybe I’ve given it enough reflection at this point that it’s something we could talk about if you guys are interested in hearing about it. You know, it’s really tough one to discuss because you don’t want to offend anybody or upset anybody.

Giacomo:

Right.

Dani:

But there’s, you know, there’s a bit to be said about that. But what you just said is also true. I think it’s where you can be healthy is a much bigger range than what people think. And you can’t look at somebody and tell Ydev, right. Sometimes you can look at somebody until.

Giacomo:

You did it again. My body’s cracky.

Dani:

Sometimes you can look at somebody and tell if they’re not healthy with your eyes, but you cannot look at somebody and tell if they are healthy with your eyes, you can’t.

Giacomo:

So, anyways.

Dani:

Anyways, indeed. Yeah.

Giacomo:

So why don’t we talk about some of the benefits? Why don’t we get into a little bit of detail about what the benefits are when you do focus on taking it there, putting in the effort to apply bodybuilding principles without becoming bodybuilder lean.

Dani:

Well, generally speaking, you’re eating lots of healthy whole foods, you’re eating lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and that is always going to be a good thing for you.

Giacomo:

Getting in your protein, definitely training regularly.

Dani:

Staying hydrated, focused on your sleep, trying.

Giacomo:

To keep stress low, working on having healthy eating patterns, healthy eating habits, a healthy relationship with food.

Dani:

Looking really good. Like, no, you’re not gonna look like you’re gonna step on stage, but if you asked the average person, if someone looking, going on stage looks good, they’d say no. So I think looking really good, but like, in a, I guess, more socially acceptable kind of a way, doing things.

Giacomo:

Less recreationally that are otherwise detrimental to your health. If they’re recreational habits, like drinking, smoking, all kinds of other, whatever. Focusing on being comfortable in your own skin and how you look, having a different kind of relationship with your body as far as, like, how you feel about it, maybe.

Dani:

See, ooh, that’s one of those slippery slope ones. It’s just so hard to, hard to know. Like, when do you cross the line of neuroticism here? It’s tough. It’s tough to know.

Giacomo:

Yes, but that is the work, is my point. That is the work.

Dani:

Other benefit, if you’re doing what I’m talking about, your performance in the gym should still be really good and improving, albeit maybe a bit slower than if you were at a higher body fat percentage. But it should still be pretty good in the gym. Um, cardiovascular endurance, definitely, definitely cardiovascular endurance. You know, bodybuilders are notorious for having outstanding cardiovascular fitness half the time.

You know what I mean? Like, they only do cardio when they have to do cardio, which I think has been an error on bodybuilders parts for a long time, but historically, that’s how it’s gone. Not great. I would also say, you know, if you’re doing what I’m talking about correctly, you should still be able to have a social life. You know, not an insane social life where you go out and drink with your buddies all the time, or constantly, you know, have taco Tuesday and bottomless margaritas

and eat at buffets, but, you know, you should still be able to go to a birthday party, eat some stuff there and not feel like, oh, blew it. I’m gonna have to just eat lettuce for the next two days, because that’s, see that mentality? You’ve crossed the line. You’re in unhealthy land.

And the thing is, I think that all these different aspects I’m talking about, right. The line is gonna be different for each one of those things. So really, you kind of have to play to the lowest common denominator and find. Find the highest line and work with that.

Giacomo:

We’re describing a lifestyle that is a healthy one and one that affords you the ability to experience true health and gives you the ability to be able to do anything you want, to be able to move your body in your back 50 and in your best years, and hopefully prevent the kind of bone and muscle loss that results in osteopenia, osteoporosis, the kinds of issues where, like, when you fall down, like, you might not be able to get up in one piece and you might have real problems.

It helps you play with your family and keep up with them. The younger ones, the younger generation. It helps you do things that people who are inactive can’t do. Go on hikes, take up sports, do yard work, and house chores that people who are not in that kind of shape struggle with. They do these things, but they take their toll on them. You get to experience a lifestyle that gives you the chance to be healthy, active, fit, and feel good while you’re doing it.

Dani:

I think this is going to be my pursuit for a while. I think it’s going to be my pursuit. And it’s, you know, there’s a bad time to try and do that in Halloween, going into the end of the year. But I even just kind of imagined how I would kind of graph this to try to figure out where is.

Giacomo:

That optimal spot and look whether you compete or not, because that’s a hypothetical. That’s not what this discussion is about.

Dani:

No.

Giacomo:

What you’re describing right now, in my opinion, is what every single competitive, body building athlete should do. What we’re discussing, kind of.

Dani:

Kind of because a competitive bodybuilding athlete, if they want to get better year after year, you know, and I know they have to go through a building phase. They have to go through a building phase, a gaining phase where they’re, most people are going to be like, kind of pounding an uncomfortable amount of food and getting in a higher body fat percentage than they want to be in.

Giacomo:

So are you suggesting that someone shouldn’t do that, based in this conversation, they shouldn’t try to eat more to put on muscle.

Dani:

Well, it depends on the person, doesn’t it? For me, no. No. But, you know, I also can’t eat too little. But regardless, I guess I don’t understand your question. You’re saying everybody should, every competitive bodybuilder should want to do this.

Giacomo:

I think for a certain period of time, no matter how good you’re trying to get at the sport of bodybuilding, that what you’re describing is something that every body ability should experience for a certain portion of the year, every year. And if they’re not working toward that, they’re not getting the benefits.

Dani:

Well, I think maybe this is just the end, right? Like that’s the end game, when somebody decides they don’t want to compete anymore if they haven’t made themselves absolutely hate and resent everything about the sport, which very luckily, I have not. Gotcha. I think that’s what most people want to just experience from that point on.

I don’t want to bulk anymore, I don’t want to cut anymore. I just want to be healthy, look good, feel good, perform well, have a life, have more balance in my world. But I think that that is actually probably, correct me if I’m wrong, I think it’s probably the hardest goal of all of them.

Giacomo:

I feel like once you’re able to hang up your suit or your trunks or whatever it’s for, as a bodybuilder, it’s probably effortless to do something like that, and it’s probably not that I have seen. Really?

Dani:

Yeah. I think that when you have spent the last ten years, let’s say when you have spent the last ten years constantly being in a build or a prep for ten years, and someone says, be free, young Padawan. Like, you don’t know what, that you don’t know what to do with yourself.

Giacomo:

Anymore, take up another hobby.

Dani:

But that’s not what happens. What happens, they go off the deep end. They don’t know what to do. Mostly what I’ve seen is they gain a lot of weight quickly in a way they don’t want to. And then what happens? A year later, they say, I can’t live like this. I have to compete because it’s the only thing that will keep me in a body that I’m happy with.

Giacomo:

It really hurts to hear that’s, I.

Dani:

Mean, it’s very common.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

Because that balance thing, which I guess, I guess that’s what I’m talking about. Right? Like a balance, but teetering on the edge is really, I think the most challenging to achieve, because how do you know if you’re achieving it? When you’re gaining, if you’re getting stronger and the scale’s going up, congratulations, you are succeeding.

When you’re cutting, if the scale is going down, congratulations, you are succeeding. Like, when you’re just trying to live optimally, I think it’s just. It’s hard to know, am I succeeding or am I not? This isn’t measurable, see?

Giacomo:

And I’m thinking it’s just like you go through all that trouble of knowing your body that well inside and out. You probably know where your body’s gonna be okay settling in and where you’ll be okay settling into. As far as what size you are, how much you weigh, how much muscle you have on. I would have to imagine that if you went through all that trouble, you have to know more or less where that is for you.

Dani:

I agree with you. But not right after a competition, right? Think about your mindset after competing season. How sane are you?

Giacomo:

Not very.

Dani:

Not very. So if you’re going end of competition, for example, into, like, I want to achieve balance like many people do, it just. It’s a disaster. It’s a disaster. The pendulum has swung so far one way for so long now, with no reins on you of this threat, basically of a show, it just goes catapulting in the other direction.

So, while I agree with you, yes, when you’ve done this for a long time, you do know so much about your body, but there is a period where it doesn’t matter what you know because you are out of control. And I think it takes, like, a recovery period before your brain can even really start to find that place.

Giacomo:

Right. You’re in the danger zone where you have to be methodical while you’re becoming less neurotic until you can trust yourself to think your way through it.

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

That’s a lot. Well, hopefully this was an interesting discussion for you guys. I really hope it was. Um, if you. If you guys ever want to hear more of mine and Giacomo’s just random ass discussions that come up about fitness or nutrition, because I know a lot of times we come on here and we’re like the quote unquote experts about this, that or the other, which, which we are.

I don’t want to make it sound like we’re not, but there’s still discussions that we have about so many different things that are, you know, pertaining to fitness, pertaining to nutrition and life, and how to help people. That might be interesting to you guys to hear us kind of noodle it around. All right, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of vegan proteins muscles by Brussels Radio. If you are interested in any kind of one on one coaching, go to

veganproteins.com and fill out an application, and you will hear back from us within a day. One of us, Giacomo, me, Alice, Ben, whomever, and we would love to work with you. We would love to help you, maybe try to find this place that we’re talking about, but for you, or if you want to compete, that actually sounds easier than what we’ve been talking about here.

Giacomo:

We’ll take you there.

Dani:

So shoot us a message. If there’s anything you want to hear about questions you have, you’d like answered on the podcast, we would love to do that. Once again, my name is Danny. And I’m Giacomo, and we will talk to you soon. Bye.