Ep 191 – How To Deal With Seasonal Depression

TRANSCRIPT:

Dani:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Dani.

Giacomo:

And I’m Giacomo.

Dani:

And this is episode 191. All right, so we’re still. This was the same car ride, you guys, last week. You saw this, but it is the same five minutes later. So we can’t pretend it’s a different day. Sorry, but we got all this time. Although at least we’re driving now. We got all this time driving home.

We might as well record another podcast while we’re at it. But of course, the podcasts we do in the car, we can’t have lots of research. We’re literally talking to a phone at the moment. And it is mid October right now. Getting to be late October.

Giacomo:

Yep.

Dani:

Starting to get a little crisp. Starting to get a little dark out a little earlier. And it got me thinking about this thing that I think about around this time every year, and that is getting real sad.

Giacomo:

I feel like we had a warm up to getting used to what this is like. Living in Oregon, where it was kind of there was a lack of sunlight year round. We sort of got used to what it was like being like just not having sunlight for long periods of time.

Dani:

But there’s a difference between a class cloudy day and it just being legitimately dark.

Giacomo:

That’s true.

Dani:

Which it is in. In New England. And we were talking to George and Natalie about it last night. We all stayed at an Airbnb together. We came down for the Alex’s wedding and we’re on the east coast time. But east coast time goes. You know, I don’t know where the. The line is going west, but you know, New York and Pennsylvania are on east coast time. At least think about how far west that is from where we live. If you were to just draw a straight line.

Giacomo:

From where to where?

Dani:

From where we live all the way through Pennsylvania and New York. It’s far.

Giacomo:

It’s a long way.

Dani:

It’s a long drive. We are very far east, but we’re still on that same time. And then when the clocks fall back, it starts getting dark in New England. I am not kidding you. It’s the sun starts to go down at like 3:30 in the afternoon. You have that of twilighty feeling time. I despise it. I hate it more than anything. Every year I say, why do I live here?

Giacomo:

I feel like you start protesting earlier and earlier in the year also.

Dani:

I just feel like if I’m loud and annoying enough, they’ll stop doing daylight savings time and ruining my life. Nope, Anyway, so, yeah, the sun sets earlier the further east you are in any time zone. Think about it, think about it. It makes sense. The further east you are, the earlier the sun sets in your time zone.

Giacomo:

Well, here’s a question.

Dani:

We are very far east when it’s.

Giacomo:

That dark for that long of a period during the day, for a decent period of time, do you have to be miserable? Does it have to become something that is a disorder where it causes depressive, like, behavior or actual depression and make it so that, like, you, your quality of life just becomes compromised? Is that something that you just have to accept because of your environment?

Dani:

Are you talking about me specifically or do you mean you plural?

Giacomo:

Plural.

Dani:

Oh, I mean, no, obviously not.

Giacomo:

Okay.

Dani:

Not everybody deals with it at all, but I do. I. I really dread the darkest parts of the year. This is not just dark, it’s dark and cold. So even when the sun is out, like, you don’t want to go outside because your face hurts when you go outside. And I just, I get really nervous for it every year.

I mean, I have a lot of strategies in place that I think help to mitigate. And I even made a YouTube video about it last year. A lot of the things that I do to help with that. But I mean, is it something that you experience at all?

Giacomo:

I didn’t think that I did, but I feel differently this past five years. I can just tell. And I wonder what I could be doing better. Am I not getting outside enough? Am I slacking on my vitamin D? Am I. Could I be doing a better job doing something to manage how I feel, Whether it’s just finding ways to just spark a little more joy in my life because I’m less inclined and less likely to do things that are fun.

When it’s dark for longer hours for a period of time, I think about how uncomfortable the weather can make me if I’m not doing a good job keeping myself warm. Warm, for example, or just enjoying the outdoors? I don’t know. So is it. Am I, am I the problem? Or is it just something that the probability is just high? Or is it just something where, like, no matter what you do, you’re going to wind up? Don’t do that. Yawns are contagious. Don’t yawn. I didn’t see that. Is it something where,

where you pretty much. That’s just gonna be the way it is. That’s your environment and it’s not your environment to control. Like, I wonder if, like, despite your best efforts, if you’re. There’s probably just a high risk that because it’s dark out, that’s likely going to be the way that it feels. It’s going to affect you in that way where you. Where you’re just gonna have. You’re gonna feel a little bit depressed, a little bit down. I don’t know.

Dani:

That was so many words.

Giacomo:

It was a lot of words. Sorry about that.

Dani:

I. There are places where people likely experience this significantly less. There’s also places where I think people probably experience it way more. I mean, there’s places where for a full month the sun doesn’t come out. People. And then for a full month in the summer, the sun never goes away. Like, I can’t imagine living in that particular situation. I kind of almost want to experience it at some point because it’s sounds so nuts to me not gonna go down that path right now.

But. Yeah, I don’t think everybody experiences it, but I do think it’s really sneaky. It’s really sneaky. It’s not like you wake up one. Unless you have as much experience with it as I do, which is a lot. I don’t feel like you just wake up one day and you’re like, oh, it’s the seasonal depression. She’s here. I think it can be really gradual. It builds and like, over a lifetime. Also, like you said, it was just the last few years.

Giacomo:

Over a lifetime, huh?

Dani:

Yeah. Like you didn’t deal with it when you were younger. I think exactly what you just said. You said the last five years.

Giacomo:

No, what I meant is that I was in denial and now I’m just accepting how it’s probably been all along. But we are saying there might be some truth to that. Actually, now that you mention it, I feel like as you pick up, as you accumulate more responsibilities, it becomes harder and harder to not put yourself in a position where you will experiencing. Be experiencing seasonal affective disorder. I think that’s a thing.

Dani:

I wonder how much of it is literally just like biology. Like, it’s just natural to rest more in winter. Like, if all the buildings and cell phones and everything went away and we had to live off the land, essentially, like, you’d be scrounging around like crazy at this point to get all of your crops and stuff stored away in the cold cellar and so that you have enough food to get through the winter.

And then what do you do through the winter? Like, not much, actually. And then come spring, everything comes back to life and you bust your ass all summer. I mean, like, I think that’s probably like A human being’s natural rhythm. But the world is not set up that way anymore.

Giacomo:

But on the flip side, it’s a period of time that forces you to recharge and rest a little bit. I don’t know how that could be.

Dani:

Depressing because our world isn’t set up for it. So you’re still expected to perform and do all of the things that you have to do. But like naturally you just have lower energy, so you frustrate yourself. Maybe, maybe I don’t. I mean, I’m. Like I said, we can’t research anything right now. We’re just talking off the cuff here.

I think a lot of it has to. This is my opinion. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the holidays are smack in the middle of winter. And a lot of people have like bad associations with holidays for various reasons. So people don’t look forward to that. I don’t know, it’s really tough. Like, how does it manifest for you?

Giacomo:

Me?

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

I thought you were referring to our audience over there. Well, honestly, it is one of those things where I turn around and it’s three months later and I’m like, wow, I’m kind of miserable right now. This just doesn’t feel very good and I wish there was more sunlight and I’m cold and I’m cranky and to your point. Yeah, I have.

It would be nice to just let nature take its course and this be a period of time where I hibernate and choose to do less, but I don’t have that luxury. And I’m also choosing to do things that require just as much out of me energy wise as they do in the summertime. And it helps when you’re in a better mood to do things as well.

Dani:

Yeah, man. Shit is so much easier to do when you’re motivated.

Giacomo:

Yes, yes.

Dani:

Which is why we love motivation. I love generating motivation, but it’s hard and doesn’t always come naturally. And then you got to just rely on your discipline at that point.

Giacomo:

And it’s one thing when it’s a choice, you feel more in control. But when it’s nature choosing for you, you get a little frustrated. It’s like you want to be like, stop. Why? Yeah, I think that’s part of the frustration. There is like, it’s one thing to like take accountability or like be like, all right, what am I doing differently? But when it’s out of your control.

Dani:

Like that, I think for me some of it is stir craziness too. Like, I want to get out and.

Giacomo:

Go do things much worse at the. This is funny. I’m cutting you off here.

Dani:

Yeah, you did.

Giacomo:

I know you have a thought, but I’m gonna. I’m gonna roll over, run over you anyway, but. Cause this is kind of funny. I think so for you. I’ve seen you spend sometimes up to a 24 hour period in one room just like, just needing space because you just can’t. Because like, nope, can’t deal with today. I’m not in the mood for darkness and I just need to retreat.

Dani:

I’m not in the mood for darkness.

Giacomo:

Whatever. Like, I’m not feeling it right now. I need. I need to recharge. So that’s how I think it affects you.

Dani:

But for me, but that could happen any time of the year. If I’m. If I am super, super burnt out. I. I almost need like a dark, quiet room to just sit in for a day and it feels like probably the equivalent of plugging my phone into the wall, but it’s not.

Giacomo:

You don’t think that happens to you more in the winter? No. Oh, okay. Well, I put it this way. I think you do a much better job in the winter forcing yourself to get out of the house. Whereas I feel like there are times where I won’t open the front door for a full 24, 48, 72 hours and I’ll be like, well, whatever. Where you’re like, no, this is unacceptable. And you purposely make it a point. Open the door and you get outside.

Dani:

I try to. I want to get outside. And I don’t just mean go outside. I mean, like, get. Go out and do stuff. I want to go do stuff more. But when you live in a place where it’s snowy and dark and like the hassle of getting all your gear on to go outside and maybe shovel the driveway for 20 minutes and drive in crappy conditions and be freezing cold to like go to the grocery store. Like, man, that is a lot harder to do.

Giacomo:

Exactly. It’s kind of nice to be just like cozy and just like lay in, you know, or just hang out at home. It’s not really an inviting environment where you have to get that bundled up just to leave your home.

Dani:

But I do have some strategies.

Giacomo:

I don’t.

Dani:

I don’t need to research this because I remember a lot of them off the top of my head because I’ve been. I have been dealing with some version of this for my entire life. So that’s funny. Or was that a yawn?

Giacomo:

Well, it was a yawn, but I.

Dani:

Were laughing at my suffering.

Giacomo:

Oh, it was hysterical.

Dani:

So, okay. I do think getting outside is the number one thing. Getting outside and moving your body, those are the number one things, I think, that we get really exhausted from from not moving. Like, you ever have a day where you’re like, I’m just gonna chill on the couch and watch a movie or something, but then I’m gonna go do such and such, and then you’re like, or I could just watch another movie.

And then the whole day is gone and you’ve done nothing, but you feel worse. You’re like, I’m just gonna recharge. Treat yourself. But you feel shittier at the end of the day. I think a lot of that comes from not moving. So I actually think getting cardio in in the winter is more important than getting it in on any other time to really get your blood flowing and your heart rate up. And that could be going for a walk.

Like, listen, if you can bundle yourself up where you live and go for a walk, that is safe. Because a lot of times it’s not safe to go for a walk where we live in the winter, do it. It’s going to be better. You’re going to get actual sunlight in your eyeballs. If you can’t, like, go sit by a window first thing in the morning so you get some sunlight if you can.

Giacomo:

What if you’re privileged enough to fly somewhere warm?

Dani:

That’s one of my strategies.

Giacomo:

Okay. All right. I didn’t mean to jump ahead to the end here. Sorry.

Dani:

He always does.

Giacomo:

I do.

Dani:

It’s his favorite thing.

Giacomo:

It is.

Dani:

You got to always rely on Giacomo to start a story in the middle and confuse the whole room.

Giacomo:

It’s a gift.

Dani:

So getting outside, moving your body, making plans that you are actually looking forward to. You know, I’ve talked about this before. I save, like, going to the movies a lot. Like, Jock Mo’s complaining recently, we haven’t gone to the movies much lately. I was like, don’t worry. Movie season is coming where we will go to the movies more often.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Okay. So this is. Okay.

Dani:

Like, I could sit at home in a dark room, or I could sit in a movie theater in a dark room.

Giacomo:

All right. All right.

Dani:

You know, it feels like going to do something cool. Any. They don’t have to be outdoor things. They don’t have to be active things. Just having something that you’re excited to go do is important. And if you are privileged enough to escape, to go somewhere where it’s warmer or sunnier for a Week in, like, the shittiest month of winter.

Giacomo:

Do it.

Dani:

Just February, by the way. At least it is up here. Do it. Absolutely do it. If you can do it twice in the winter, God bless you. Like that is. That could save your whole sanity keeping plants in your house that are just having greenery around you, because in a lot of places, all the leaves are gone from the trees. It’s just kind of dreary to look at. So having plants or flowers in your house is really, really nice.

Giacomo:

Making sure to let everyone know to test your vitamin D levels because they. That’s the time of the year where they get low, and once they get there, it’s bad. And they can stay there and get lower and lower over time. If you don’t. I typically take more vitamin D in the wintertime. Or if you’re someone who just doesn’t get a lot of sunlight in general, maybe you work from a desk for most of the day and you’re in a

city with where you, like, the sunlight is blocked from big buildings, for example. You’re not exposing your skin to sunlight. Yeah. Vitamin D deficiency is really bad.

Dani:

Oh, it’s. I have had it once when we lived in Oregon.

Giacomo:

Mm.

Dani:

Because I never supplemented it with it when I was a kid.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

And then when we moved to Oregon, I never thought about it.

Giacomo:

Yeah.

Dani:

And then I went to a doctor like, hey, Doc, something is wrong with me. I feel awful. Awful.

Giacomo:

Well, the interesting thing is the amount of people in Oregon who were vitamin D deficient was high.

Dani:

Well, of course it was.

Giacomo:

Yeah. So also the number of people in.

Dani:

Portland, Oregon, with cavities was high because they didn’t put fluoride in the water. I learned that the hard way.

Giacomo:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dani:

Grateful to be back in Massachusetts for that.

Giacomo:

Yes. Thank you.

Dani:

Uh, so. Okay. Vitamin D. Yes. That’s a good one. I have never found success in light therapy from a light.

Giacomo:

It’s all psychosomatic to me, and I just, like, believe that it’s going to help. I don’t know if it actually does. I just hope that it does.

Dani:

I have one.

Giacomo:

Me too.

Dani:

But I get eye strain, like, if lights are too bright, so I don’t like it.

Giacomo:

Oh.

Dani:

Not my favorite thing.

Giacomo:

Is there evidence that it works?

Dani:

I don’t. There’s. There’s. The studies are mixed, so I don’t know. But my two of my favorite tips for winter, for surviving winter and not resenting it and hating it, are. Is actually to lean into it. Lean into it. Make your house as cozy as you can. You Know have warm blankets and nice hot drinks that you like. And, you know, if you got a fireplace, you set that sucker on.

Giacomo:

I’m looking forward to that. We do happen to have a firebase. I like to set up a lot of warming things around my office desk. So I have a heating pad that. It’s an electric heating pad that goes underneath my keyboard on my desk. What’s so funny about that?

Dani:

It’s just really funny. All it does is warm up your forearms.

Giacomo:

Well, it keeps my hands warm. And your hands and your feet and your head are where you lose heat the fastest. So I just put my. I literally put my hands on it. Then I have a heating pad that I put on my butt when I’m working and I’m really cold or I leave it under, like my pillow, for example, or into my blankets.

I wear thermals. When I wake up, I throw on thermals top to bottom. We have like, AKA long underwear. Long underwear. We have feet warmers. Little thing to heat up your mug at our desks. We have those as well. Yeah, just like finding when you live.

Dani:

In a place as cold as we live, which I think would apply to New England and the Midwest, it gets freezing there as well. Every degree that you turn your heat up in your house probably cost you $50 a month, maybe even more. So you have a lot of monetary incentive to not turn the heat up very high. Like, if you can keep it. If you can. If you can tolerate 68 degrees, good for you. I struggle with it every year. We try so hard, but we’re just, like, bundled up every single year. But having cozy

clothes to wear. Big, fluffy, comfy, cozy. And if you can make them cute. Please tell me how you do that, because I don’t know how to do that. I look like. If you can make your comfy, cozy clothes, cute, look cute. Because I constantly look like a bag lady in my house. Last year I posted a story of me wearing a blanket as a dress over my clothes. And that’s how I walk around the house all day. I put a blanket around my waist, tuck it in like a towel. Like when a guy gets out of the shower.

Giacomo:

What’s that thing you said you were gonna get from me? Since I tend to do a bad job at regulating my body temperature for the winter. Something that was like a coat or something like that. A house coat.

Dani:

It’s probably like a Snuggie or something. I’m probably gonna get you a Snuggie so that you can stay warm.

Giacomo:

So is there truth to Those, like, funky looking, snuggy kind of outfits that you can buy at Target or something like that with like the hoodie and the almost a costume.

Dani:

Oh, I’m sure that there is. And I actually. So Natalie Matthews, good friend, actually has a onesie collection. She collects fluffy onesies.

Giacomo:

I forgot about that. That she does, in fact have a collection of them. Okay.

Dani:

And I was asking her, like, where can I get a fluffy onesie that I can wear at my house over my clothes that doesn’t look like I’m in pajamas? And the answers were questionable. So I’ll see if I can figure it out.

Giacomo:

Okay. Anyway, so onesies.

Dani:

Yeah. Well, really just leaning into it everywhere in your house, like, how can you make your house more cozy? And in a lot of Icelandic countries, they do this. And their name for it is Hygge.

Giacomo:

Hygge.

Dani:

It’s spelled funny, though. I think it’s H, Y, G, G, E. And it’s literally like the art of cozifying your house because they live in the cold so often and, like really cold. And I think it’s just a really great idea of kind of making the most of a kind of unpleasant situation. But the thing is, you have to cycle through it. You know how, like, if you have pets or kids, it’s a good idea to, like, swap out their toys every once in a while. So they’re, like, excited by quote unquote, new toys,

even though they’re not new, they just haven’t seen them in a while. So they have novelty again. Okay, well, we need to treat ourselves like that as well, in that it’s a good idea to save certain things for certain times so that they can feel novel again. Like, you know, you don’t need to have a super cozy house with lots of warm tea with lemon in the summer. If you save those things for the winter. They have. They just seem more fun. Some of them make more sense than others.

Giacomo:

There are certain foods that can feel nourishing in the fall. In the winter also, squashes, potatoes, chilies, root vegetables, Grains can feel nice and hearty. You can make yourself a nice warm bowl of something, for example.

Dani:

And certain spices, sage. Anything with sage in it in the fall and winter.

Giacomo:

Just like fruit would feel nice in the summer, for example.

Dani:

Right?

Giacomo:

Yeah. So eating seasonally as well. Exactly. Certain kinds of spices, Rosemary.

Dani:

Yeah.

Giacomo:

Herby kind of stuff.

Dani:

Well, there’s summer herbs too, but that’s more like parsley and dill.

Giacomo:

Yes.

Dani:

I don’t know. I find all of that stuff to be incredibly Helpful. And of course, like, talk to someone. Like if you need, if it’s, if it’s bad. I don’t even want to say if it’s bad. Go to therapy, like talk to somebody just to see, like, do a little inventory on yourself. Do a little wellness check on yourself.

If you’re somebody that knows this hits you like a freight train every year, which I’m very lucky. I don’t feel like it does anymore because of all these strategies I have in place. It’s just like an annoying low level hum that stays in the background of all winter for me at this point.

Giacomo:

But it gets you out of your head so you can start to figure out why you’re, what you’re doing, why things affect you the way they do so that you can strategize. Yes, get ahead of it before it happens.

Dani:

But if you’re somebody that knows this hits you like a freight train every year. There’s medications for that. And I understand, believe me, I understand that a lot of mental health medications are over prescribed and just thrown at everybody on day one. I get it. I’m not in support of this. But I also think that shunning the entire pharmaceutical industry when it comes to mental health is also a mistake.

Because you know, there are things out there that can really help people to not suffer or just give them the boost enough that they need to start making some of these lifestyle changes that we’re talking about. Because if you talk, I mean, this is not seasonal affective disorder specifically, but if you talk to someone with like a major depressive disorder and be like, you just need to get outside and exercise, like, I’m sure they would love to do that. I’m sure they would love to,

love to do anything, but they can’t. So I think sometimes pharmaceutical help for those folks can give them the boost enough to start making these small steps and then bigger steps and then hopefully not need them anymore, you know, and some people need them forever and that’s okay too. So that’s, I just don’t want to make it sound like I’m just saying, oh, just have a routine and wear comfy clothes and seasonal affective disorder gone.

Giacomo:

You get to focus on being as proactive as you can to work on your mental health. You can also understand that despite your best efforts, it still may not be enough for you to experience mental health. And having something help without blaming yourself or trying to like, tough it through is potentially not only a viable but a smart option for you.

So there’s definitely no shame in that. And it’s hard because of the stigma to embrace and to lean into that direction. But for some, that is. That is the right way to do it and the best way to do it and necessary. Right. And the idea that’s coming to mind for me is just what the kinds of. The lengths that competitors go through bodybuilders specifically, to make up for the fact they feel like crap.

But it’s their choice to compete. And it’s like they do all. They supplement with all kinds of things. They do all kinds of things to not feel like crap. But it’s like for some reason, when it comes to mental health, you’re unwilling. You’re like, if I can’t just, like, think my way through this because there’s.

Dani:

A huge stigma around it, that’s it. I mean, that’s really the problem. There’s a huge stigma around people admitting that mentally they might need some help. And also because I think a lot of these mental health issues are so sneaky. They sneak up on you. You don’t even real. It’s like a slow boil. You don’t even realize that stuff is starting to go sideways often until like, it’s pretty. It’s pretty solidified. Like it’s become your new personality and it’s going to be way harder.

Giacomo:

Why make it harder on yourself? Right. So now let’s say that you are depressed or two years, but you were able to work through it. Now let’s say you could have been depressed for two months because you took an antidepressant and you still had to work through it. Wouldn’t you take the two months over the two years?

Dani:

Right. But you don’t. Again, I just don’t think a lot of people even realize. But I mean, it’s. First of all, it’s not that I want to acknowledge. It’s not that simple. A lot of people have to try a few different things before they find something that works.

Giacomo:

And sometimes you don’t get the answer because it is far from a perfect science and you’ve experimented and there are.

Dani:

Some side effects and there.

Giacomo:

Yeah, there are downsides here and there’s no guarantees. It’s just.

Dani:

Yeah, but it can be a viable option.

Giacomo:

Correct.

Dani:

Something that I think I’m going to try this year. I’m going to look into it, see if I can find. It is a sauna. What There. There is some research out there. And again, it makes sense. If you look at these Icelandic companies. Companies. If you look at these Icelandic countries, a lot of people even have A sauna in their home. It’s like a part of their culture.

Giacomo:

Not a hot tub. No.

Dani:

I mean, boy, do I want a hot tub. My God, do I want a hot tub.

Giacomo:

But a sauna?

Dani:

I would.

Giacomo:

Yeah, Okay.

Dani:

I would personally prefer the hot tub, honestly, but. Well, now you got me thinking. I wasn’t gonna buy a sauna. I was just gonna see if I could find a place to go sit in one. But, hey, if you’re telling me we got the funds to swing that, that would be neat. Anyway, there. A lot of people have saunas in their home in these Icelandic countries, and it’s part of their culture.

Giacomo:

Is it the heat?

Dani:

I don’t know. I. I have to look into it more because a lot of people not. Are not just going to saunas, but they’re going to, like, infrared saunas, which I know absolutely nothing about. So that could be a bunch of hocus pocus. I don’t know. I would have to look into it. But, I mean, it’s worth. I think it’s worth trying if I can find one of the branches of our gyms that has one, because we do have a steam room, but I think that’s freaking disgusting.

So any steam room, like, I don’t care if it’s clean or not, that’s gross to me. So saunas are significantly less gross. I just think of, like, wet bacteria sitting in other people’s wet bacteria. Even with a towel, man, that’s soaking through, so not into it at all. Gross. Let’s see, is there anything else about seasonal depressive disorder?

Making plans that you look forward to? Exercise. Exercise is actually the number one. I kind of glossed over it, but it’s because we talk about exercise on every single podcast. But I truly. I 100% believe that exercise, cardio, specifically in the winter, is the most effective thing for battling any kind of seasonal depression.

Giacomo:

Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. Stay in touch with uscybrussels and veganproteins on all the socials. Hit the contact button on veganproteins.com and one of us will get back to you right away. Once again, my name is Giacomo and I’m Dani. We’ll talk to you soon.

Dani:

Bye.