Are you a pusher or a slacker? You might be surprised to hear that we don’t think one is necessarily better than the other. Join Dani & Alice for a conversation on working with these opposing personality types.
📢 Highlights from this episode:
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The importance of adhering to a plan, not doing more
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Why personal accountability is so helpful for both pushers and slackers
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Letting other people have their opinions (even when they believe things that aren’t true)
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Is “slacker” even the right word?
👉 Tune in for an honest, relatable chat that goes beyond the highlight reels and into the heart of what it means to connect authentically.
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🔎 Related Phrases:
determined to reach your goals, accountability partner, importance of coaching, motivational tools
Transcript:
[Alice:]
Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Alice.
[Dani:]
And I’m Dani.
[Alice:]
And this is episode 202.
[Dani:]
Well, welcome back, everybody. Hope everyone’s new year is off to a great start. I know this is coming out towards the end of January, but it’s actually January 2nd as we are recording this.
And both myself and Giacomo and Alice are gearing up to head down to Orlando for the Run Disney Marathon. Although we’re heading down a few days before you. What day are you leaving?
[Alice:]
Oh, I wanted to ask you about that. I was thinking about leaving Tuesday, but if I need to be there Monday to help get set up on Tuesday, you just let me know.
[Dani:]
I think Tuesday’s fine. I’m pretty sure. I’ll double check that afterwards because I sometimes this is a weird show.
Usually shows are Saturday, Sunday or sometimes Friday, Saturday, Sunday. But this one is Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or something. I weird and we’ve never done a show in Disney before.
[Alice:]
So are you and the hours were different each day. I was pulling up the schedule and I actually ended up taking a picture because I said to myself, I’m never going to remember this.
[Dani:]
Yes, I wrote it down. I’ve had to look back like a million times at it. I still don’t remember it.
[Alice:]
Yeah. Yeah. I’m super excited.
I love driving because it’s like the only time I really let my brain just kind of zone out and looking forward to that. And can’t wait to see you guys. And the interesting being at Disney with the vegan strong booth.
[Dani:]
Yeah. Yeah. We’ll see.
We’ll see how it goes. This’ll be our, I guess, no fourth race. We did Boulder, Boulder once peach tree road race.
We just did the marathon in New York city and now the marathon in Disney. Uh, we’ll see how it goes. It’s kind of out of the wheelhouse for everybody on our team.
Cause none of us are marathon runners or really runners period, but they could still learn about how to build muscle on a plant-based diet. Damn it.
[Alice:]
So, and besides we’ve had practice last year with mr. Olympia being in Florida and Florida. I remember.
[Dani:]
Yes. And I like Orlando. I like Orlando a fair bit.
Although that awesome restaurant that I’m forgetting what it’s called now. Um, but they closed, like they closed forever. They were one of the oldest, um, vegan restaurants around, man, it’s really bumming me out.
I can’t remember the name of it, but they closed. So we’ve got to find somewhere else to eat. I have a couple of ideas.
I have a couple of ideas.
[Alice:]
Okay. New year’s new year’s is always boring for me. Um, I don’t do anything because I can’t stay up past about nine or 10 o’clock, but that’s okay.
You know, I like the idea of new year’s. I like the fresh start. I like the encouragement to set goals lines, get really excited.
So I’m all about it.
[Dani:]
Yeah. I like new year’s a lot too. I actually had no reason to stay up till midnight this year.
Cause we didn’t do anything and Jock was asleep by like nine. Um, but then I thought about it. I was like, I don’t think I’ve ever fallen asleep before midnight on new year’s.
So I guess I’m not going to start today. Uh, so I just stayed up until 12 or five wished everybody happy new year. And then went to bed.
So we have like, I think it’s an interesting topic. I hope you guys think it’s an interesting topic. This is something we’ve kind of touched upon a few times in other podcasts, how there’s really two types of clients or even two types of athletes.
If you want to think about it like that, because we’re not clients, but I think you are, I would fall into one of these categories and that is that there are pushers and there are slackers. And that sounds like there are good ones and there are bad ones, but that’s not what I mean by that. It’s just like, I feel like I could take almost all of my, uh, clients and myself and kind of divvy them up into those camps.
And I think it’s really interesting to consider which one of those you are and then what to do about it. So have you, first of all, have you like had the same experience?
[Alice:]
Absolutely. And yeah, I don’t want it to sound like the pushers are the good clients and the slackers are the bad clients because the pushers think about how, you know, you could be a pusher and that’s a bad thing, pushing things too far, taking things too far. And they have their own unique set of challenges, which we’re going to get into that.
I thought long and hard about this. And it’s, it’s so true. It’s so right.
Which one do you want to get started talking about first?
[Dani:]
First, I think we should just like kind of define what it is we’re talking about. You kind of just started to right there. The pushers are those people that it’s like, I always joke, like if I told these people to walk off a cliff, they’d get in a line immediately.
Like they would just immediately be like, how can I suffer more for this goal? And, uh, in one, like they could, if you’re a lazy ass coach, they could be a very easy group of people to coach. Cause you could just let them beat themselves into oblivion.
There’s the other camp. I mean, I think most people know what a slacker is, but I don’t, you know, I think that it means like you find reasons to not do the things you said you were going to do more easily, uh, little roadblocks become something that can actually derail you. You need somebody to give you a bit of a kick in the ass.
And I think that’s why most people hire a coach is because they, everybody thinks they’re that person. Right. And lots of people are that person.
And I’ve also noticed, cause I’ve thought about this in other areas, like in life in general, I think you can be a pusher in some areas of your life and a slacker and others and vice versa. Yeah. So that’s, that’s, that’s what we mean by it.
So I guess since most people at least are going to identify the idea of being more of the person who needs a kick in the pants, like maybe we should start with the slacker side of things.
[Alice:]
Yeah. Yeah. So I thought really long and hard about like, who is my typical like slacker client?
And I think, yeah, it’s good to talk about that one first, because it sounds like we’re beating them up.
[Dani:]
Yeah, absolutely. And we’re not at all. If anything, those are, that’s why you hire a coach is because you need help.
You need somebody to push you. That’s, you know, it’s why I would hire a coach for different areas of my life would be for the same thing.
[Alice:]
It’s not, so this isn’t like, this isn’t a hard and fast rule or anything. This is just what I have found to be typically true, you know, fitness slackers. I’m going to use that adjective throughout this, because we’re only talking about in the scale of coaching and fitness and health.
So fitness slacker, you know, I would not call them like a slacker in life at all, not in the least, they tend to have way too much on their plate, they tend to easily overload themselves. And they have a really, really tough time saying no to things, at least with their words, right? But their actions might be another story.
And not surprisingly, they’ll have a hard time setting priorities.
[Dani:]
That’s exactly what I was gonna say was they have a hard time prioritizing things.
[Alice:]
Absolutely. And, you know, lots and lots of good things about them. My typical slacker client, they’re typically like social kings and queens, like, they have very successful careers, a lot of them, they may even be like the breadwinner in some cases.
And they also will have like very good home dynamics, usually where, you know, everyone in the house gets along very well. And I find them to be like, mostly very generous persons, you know, their desire to take care of themselves really like comes and goes, though. And they tend to be like, kind of only maybe only or only maybe mostly motivated by like extrinsic things, like other people’s opinions, they know that they should take care of their health.
But most of the time, they’d rather take care of someone else.
[Dani:]
Yes, that’s it right there. Like, I feel like their desire to take care of themselves is usually pretty high, their ability to do so comes and goes like, and I think that’s why they’re so frustrated so often is because what they want, and what they are, what their actions are, like incongruent, and it’s frustrating to them. And that’s exactly it that a lot of times they will prioritize others, thoughts, feelings, opinions, needs above their own.
And it’s almost like they can justify it like they can they can come up with reasons why and they’re not bad reasons or anything. But, you know, if you do that over and over and over again, every time somebody else needs something from you, you’re not going to get very far for yourself. And that’s just an inconvenient truth right there.
But having somebody kind of in your corner to point out maybe that this is your pattern, and that it might seem like you’re being very generous. But if it’s at the expense of yourself, eventually, you’re going to crack and then you’re not even going to be able to give of yourself the way that you would like to. Does that make sense?
[Alice:]
Absolutely. I see it happen time and time again.
[Dani:]
Yeah, it’s a and I also find that and maybe this is partially our fault as well as just vegan proteins in general, because we also have a lot of people in the other camp. So when we make these podcasts, it’s like we’re kind of talking to everybody. And that makes it tricky.
Because you could theoretically have two completely different podcasts about any one topic for these two different demographics of people. So a lot of times we’re talking to people that are like over training, over pushing, overdoing and being like, you need to chill out a little bit. And then the other folks here and they’re like, I need to chill out a little bit.
And it’s like, no, no, not you. You don’t need to chill out. You keep going.
[Alice:]
Exactly. You have to tackle the clients in different ways. They’re different strategies are different ways you talk to them.
They get different homework assignments, right? So yes, and you’re checking up being very different.
[Dani:]
Yeah, and a lot of you know, I find even myself sometimes I’m coaching, I’m coaching a particular type of person and I’m giving them advice that is advice. It’s the opposite advice of what I personally need. And also, I feel like I’ve gone through seasons in my life where I’ve been both of these people in fitness and nutrition in all of those things.
I have been both of them. But like, you know, I could be telling somebody else like you need to, you know, don’t stress so much. Don’t do this so much.
But for myself, even in that moment, I might know like Danny, you need to kick in the pants, you need to stop coming up with excuses to not get to the gym because it’s cold outside and you’re warm and comfortable on the couch, like, get up and go. So you know, I feel like it’s not a bad thing to recognize these traits in yourself. Because, like we just said, like everyone’s gonna fall into one of these camps at some point or another.
So what do you do with that when you recognize like, Oh, I think that’s me right now.
[Alice:]
Yeah, I love that you said that you’ve fallen into these both of the camps at one point in time. I would agree with that for myself. Of course, like historically been more on the fitness pusher side.
But yeah, when when you have a lot going on in your home life, family life, then the slacker traits tend to like become more dominant and start to take on that mindset more. And you think, Oh, who am I? What just happened?
Yeah, I don’t put those kinds of priorities aside for someone else.
[Dani:]
Yes. But I also think it’s like, we’re always trying to find this balance, right? Of Okay, I want to achieve my goals.
And that’s going to require a certain amount of me. But I also don’t want to lose the other areas of my life that I very much like. So how do I find this balance?
And I also think, you know, a lot like prep, actually, we’re in prep, like by definition, you will not make it to the end if you are not pushing, like, probably harder than the sane person should. And then there’s this like yo yo period at the end where it’s like the slingshot goes in the other direction for a while. I feel like whether you’re a pusher, or a slacker, if you’re trying to find that balance in the middle, there’s probably going to be a bit of a period where you overcorrect.
[Alice:]
Absolutely. And, and talking about this from a coaching perspective, too, it makes me go back to like some of my coaching, like certification training, where they talk about like level one and level two clients, right? And when you first hear about these two personalities, some people might argue that the slacker is level one, and the pusher is level two, but I disagree.
I think they’re both level one. And in order for them to become a level two client, they need to be able to find that balance and take on both when they need them. So pushers, you are not ahead of the game.
[Dani:]
Yeah, no. And actually, a lot of times I feel like they end, they end up sometimes leaving fitness entirely. You know, I feel like people on the other side that maybe struggle to stick to their nutrition goals or struggle to stick to their training goals, they might get frustrated.
And they might be kind of frustrated at themselves sometimes, but they come back like they keep coming back, they keep showing up, they keep trying, even if it’s imperfect, which who isn’t, but I feel like the pusher side can burn themselves out so much that they’re like, if this gym culture, I want nothing to do with it ever again, because it destroyed me.
[Alice:]
It’s like, and pushers will be the first out of the camps to say, oh, I don’t need a coach anymore, even though they haven’t even come anywhere close to meeting their goals, especially when it comes to muscle building.
[Dani:]
Yes. All right. So I’m trying to think there’s more that I want to say about the slacker is probably too harsh of a word, but I don’t know what else to call it.
Like, yeah, like, like, I don’t know people that need a push, like, that’s the only other way that I can think about it. And if I had to very quickly divide them into camps, I’d be like, the pushers are the slackers, right? I feel like most of the people who are having a hard time being consistent going to the gym, when they need to go to the gym, they know it, right?
Like they’re aware that they should probably be doing more. And because of that, I feel like oftentimes they are more coachable, they are more open to learning because they kind of know that they don’t know exactly what it is they should be doing. And I don’t always find that on the other side.
I find it can be trickier.
[Alice:]
Yeah. Yeah. And I do think that in general, slackers are going to be also a lot more driven by the social aspect of coaching, coaching, the relationship building and that accountability.
Whereas again, the pusher would be more likely to say, Oh, I don’t need this anymore. And yes, be quick to cancel, you know.
[Dani:]
And that actually just made me think about the fact that, you know, I think about how pushers need permission for one thing. But on the slacker side, I feel like one of the benefits of having a coach is helping you determine, okay, what is, and isn’t a sort of justifiable roadblock. You know what I mean?
Like if you’re sick, you shouldn’t be going to the gym. You know, sometimes you’ll get somebody that’s like, Oh, I didn’t adhere to my program because I didn’t go to the gym, but I was sick. And I’ll have to say like, no, no, I don’t want you to go to the gym when you’re sick.
Right. So they have that and they’re like, Oh, okay. This is, this is a good reason to not go to the gym versus my reason.
Like, well, it was cold and it was rainy and I just didn’t want to go like, well, how can we plan for that better in the future?
[Alice:]
Yeah. Yeah. I literally have some of that in my notes for, for like wrapping up.
Yeah. That’s dead on. Exactly.
Can we talk about what like a pusher typically is like for at least what I’ve found?
[Dani:]
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. You can go first.
[Alice:]
Yeah. It’s not, it’s not like hard and fast rules, but I typically find them to be like fiercely independent individuals. They’re not, their minds are not easily changed about a lot of things.
And they tend to be very much all or nothing personality types, which can be an advantage and a disadvantage. You know, a lot of them are regularly setting goals for themselves, not even with, with me, their coach, they’re setting goals in their own lives. They might have a vision board.
They might have regular check-ins with themselves, like very organized in that way. And I think they also like tend to inspire other people a lot. And so their friends will come to them regularly, like asking fitness questions, you know?
So they’re like, okay, we, we know a lot about what we’re, we know, we know what’s going on here. Right. And they tend to be black and white on subjects.
I already touched on that, but like just very rigid rules for themselves. Like they’ll implement kind of those kinds of things. Also they tend to, I mean, all of us experience burnout, especially now.
Right. But like, I feel like they experience burnout in smaller increments and of course they’ll push themselves too hard, but they can also be really good at knowing how to like relieve stress, knowing what works for them. And because they’ll have like periods of like small pushing and then being able to, you know, disconnect and relieve stress and then go again.
So they have a lot of stamina in that way. Like that’s why they’ve been able to like stay lean their whole lives, right. For the majority of the part, for a lot of them.
So like, you know, their shining strengths are going to be like, you know, great at reaching their fitness goals, because they can find like intrinsic motivation. Like they can find reasons like, oh, I love, you know, this type of exercise. I’ve been a lifelong runner or a lifelong yogi or a lifetime weightlifter.
That’s their personality. They, they, they can find things that they enjoy. They’ll make fitness, other things in fitness, their hobby.
And finding that internal motivation is just like, what does it for them?
[Dani:]
Yep. And often just highly analytical, usually really data-driven, but they’re, and I also find, I know you mentioned this about the, the other group as well, but I do find a lot of them to also be pretty high performers in other areas of their life as well. But I do find that a lot of them really struggle having some sort of social balance, like in their life, they might not have a super strong community or support system or friend group or family support.
And I don’t think it’s anything to do with their personality. I think it’s just because they’ve like decided this is my priority. This is what I am super focused on.
Maybe it’s, maybe it’s a couple of things, maybe it’s fitness and their job or whatever fitness and another hobby. And because of that, they’re just like, it’s like they have blinders on for their goal all the time. And they’re, they’re willing to do anything to get to their goal.
And that’s a really admirable quality, I think. And that’s why people look up to them. Right.
Because seeing somebody say, I’m going to do this. And then they do it like, to me, that’s the definition of confidence is somebody doing what they said they were going to do. So when you see that, or like, yeah, I want to do that.
It’s like, I want to be able to do that. But I find that it often it has like secret darkness within it is the best way I can put it. And I also find that it is often highly driven by anxiety.
Yeah, that’s a blanket observation. But it’s like that is the gasoline in the tank is this, this fear of stopping or fear of slowing down or something for sure.
[Alice:]
And I lost what I was gonna say, because I was so impressed by what you just said.
[Dani:]
It’s, you know, I think a lot of people are afraid that if they slow down, they will not be able to start again. Like, if I take a break, I can’t keep going. Go ahead.
[Alice:]
They, you said that they, you know, they wait for instruction, or they’re given instruction, and they’ll do anything to reach their goal. I would disagree with that. They’ll do anything to reach their goal when it comes to weight loss.
Other things? No, they will not.
[Dani:]
Yes, that’s, that’s a good point. They’ll do I should I should preface that with they’ll do anything to reach their goal that they think they should be doing.
[Alice:]
That they should be doing.
[Dani:]
Yes. Because they’re, like I said, very analytical, very data driven. A lot of these folks have already done a lot of their own research.
Like they listen to the podcast, they read the articles, they look at the studies, they know the stuff, they know it. But that doesn’t always mean that they know how to implement it very well. And this is why coaches have coaches, right?
Like even the top tier coaches that you can think of in the world often have coaches because we are not good at setting these, these plans out for ourselves. And most people are not an exception to that. Right.
[Alice:]
Right. So what do we do about it?
[Dani:]
So where the pushers can definitely benefit from having a coach is the permission that they need and not just permission, but encouragement to pull back. A lot of times they are training way more. It is ideal for them to reach their goals.
They’re often not always, but often not eating enough, like by a lot. And usually by the time they get to us to me or you, like they’ve been doing this for years and they have finally thrown their hands up in the air and been like, well, this isn’t working. So I need help because I’ve been doing this for years and I’m not changing.
I’m not getting the results I should be getting for how hard I’m working, but still there’s that mental, but it comes when they’re finally at our door and we’re like, okay, see what you’re doing. Here’s probably what we should be doing. It’s like their brain goes, Nope, Nope, Nope.
I’m not doing that. Like that sounds scary. Doing less will not help me even if it will.
So in a lot of ways they’re actually, you know, cause they’re expecting us to tell them to do more or eat more or take more rest days, or you need a de-load or like if they come to us saying like, oh, I had to miss a day or they come to us and they’re like, I was really sick on Wednesday, but I still make it to the gym. We’re like, why would you do that?
[Alice:]
Why did you think don’t do that?
[Dani:]
And they’re expecting us to like, give them 40 lashes. If they do one thing wrong, when really that one thing, quote unquote wrong may actually have been a really good thing for them specifically. They get hurt a lot.
They get burnt out. They, you know, sometimes, sometimes they are literally stopped dead in their track by injuries caused by pushing too hard for too long. I mean, anybody can get hurt doing anything, but particularly overuse injuries.
[Alice:]
Yeah. I have a lot of similar things in, in my, in my notes. Like I feel like for pushers, you are most likely going to be skating along the lines of taking things a bit too far.
And sometimes you might even ask yourself like, is this disordered, right? You might be risking, you know, physical health and mental health things, not just necessarily like, you know, cutting the deficit too low or, or, you know, it can be like you mentioned with the anxiety when we hyper focus and hyper obsess on these things, you know, it’s feeding into that cycle of anxiety. You’re likely going to just continue sort of adding on more and more restrictions and rules when it comes to your food, your schedule, you, you might be adding new fitness hobbies just so that you can make sure that you are working out every single day of the week.
Yep.
[Dani:]
Yep. That’s the thing.
[Alice:]
But in reality, you know, pushers are going to have just as hard of a time reaching certain goals. Especially when it comes to, I have a lot of women coming to me who are trying to build muscle and, you know, at some point in their lives, but the fitness pushers, they swore to themselves something like, I’m going to be thin forever, or I’m going to be this size dress forever, something like that. And this ends up leading to self-sabotage when they’re trying to make real significant changes to their physique.
So if you’re a pusher, you know, my biggest challenge to you would be to step out of first your food comfort zone. I think that’s probably the hardest. This could mean buying some kind of snack or some kind of convenience food that you have previously deemed off limits, not allowed in your life, not allowed in your house, any of that.
And I want you to schedule a time to allow yourself to have them.
[Dani:]
It could be, you know, it’s a great one.
[Alice:]
It’s a scary, right?
[Dani:]
That’s been a homework assignment for several of my clients. Like, Oh, you don’t have peanut butter in your house. Please go buy a jar.
Cause we are going to work.
[Alice:]
And, you know, you can start out just like you could, you could say, all right, I’m going to have, you know, this Trader Joe’s vegan pre made taco or a burrito. Right. I can have that on my weekends between six and seven o’clock, you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s a plan, right?
You could say, Oh, I get to have this after my toughest gym day of the whole week. You know, for me, that’s going to usually be Monday is my, my big leg day. Right.
I know that you’re going to be thinking pusher. You’re going to be listening to this and you’re rethinking this is bad advice because these foods are bad for you. But here’s the thing.
I think you’re forgetting about your mental health. And when I talk about your mental health, I talk about your mental health when it comes to your relationship with food and establishing these unnecessary food fears.
[Dani:]
Yes. I mean, no one’s arguing that like a salad isn’t better for you than French fries, like obviously duh. Right.
But living in a constant state of fear and anxiety around certain foods, because guess what? You will be in a room with French fries again, before you die, how are you going to handle that situation? If you’re sitting there white knuckling every second at the table, like forcing yourself to not eat a French fry, is that better for you?
I don’t actually think it is. I mean, the studies on stress are conclusive. That shit is terrible for you.
So trying to find a way to be able to be around these foods, enjoy certain things in moderation, not be thinking about them for the rest of the day, because that’s another thing. A lot of people will not have these foods, right? And then mentally obsess over them for the next 48 hours, because they can’t stop thinking about it.
And it’s like, that’s not healthy at all. It’s really, really hard. And man, there’s so much I could say about this.
Another thing would be to practice having an actual rest day. And a rest day doesn’t mean you go out and get 20,000 steps just because you’re not in the gym. It’s like an actual rest day, like just chill.
I mean, if you want to sit on the floor and stretch for 20 minutes in front of your teeth, whatever, but like, take an actual rest day and it might fill you with dread and panic to do so. And if it does, that’s all the bigger sign that you need to learn how to take a rest day. Like it’s uncomfortable.
And I think the two demographics of people, it’s really hard to put them in the other one’s shoes. So what is uncomfortable to a pusher is going to be the comfort zone of the slacker and vice versa. So we, you know, I think it’s really important for both of them to get out of their comfort zones, but their comfort zones are complete opposite places.
Discomfort is where the pusher is comfortable. They like the suffering. There’s a part of them that is drawn to this feeling of deprivation and discipline and almost like a military kind of vibe.
Whereas that sounds terrible to the other people. Like they just want to be healthy and look good. And they recognize it’s probably going to require a little suffering to get there, but they’re not like looking forward to it, you know?
[Alice:]
Right. Right. But before I go on to my second recommendation, like, and go too far away from that subject, I just wanted to like, end with like, from my first tip, like having a treat here and there, like even a process one is not going to hurt your health.
In fact, like as a coach, I can tell you that learning to have these treats and moderation is actually going to make you more successful in reaching your fitness goals.
[Dani:]
I think a lot of people misinterpret the way when we say this, I don’t think people are fully grasping what it is that we’re saying. I think a lot of people hear us and they say, I can have a cookie and reach my goals in spite of the cookie. And what we are saying is you can have a cookie and reach your goals because of the cookie, like because of it, because of incorporating it, not in spite of.
I feel that way about a lot of foods. People are like mock meats are a great substitute for people that are just going vegan. And I’m like, no, they’re just, depending on what they are, they can just be great.
Period. We can end the sentence right there. Like but I know that pisses a lot of people off.
[Alice:]
So second recommendation for pushers. And you know, so I’ve already went here for, I’m going to talk about like pushers and their workout program, right? If you’re a pusher, I want you to sit down and make a couple of checklists for yourself.
When is it okay for you to miss a workout? When is it okay for also for you to eat something off plan for missing a workout? You know, if you injure yourself, like they’re in that moment, you have a pain that is an injury that is your permission to stop and your workouts done.
Okay. You need to take care of yourself first. And then building on that, if you’ve had a recent injury, right.
And you it’s only been a couple of days, or it’s only even been one week, or really just you’ve had an injury, a previous injury, and the pain is greater than like a five or six out of 10. Or maybe this has just been going on too long. Now it’s time for you to go see the doctor, not be in the gym.
Okay. Also, like you mentioned, when you’re sick, right, and there’s different levels of being sick. Of course, sometimes people can work out when they’re sick and be okay.
But like, you’re feeling dizzy. If you’re feeling nauseated, or if you’re struggling to breathe from like coughing and sneezing, like these are the times that’s your pass. Self care should be first above the gym.
And for when you’re on your eating plan, okay, your checklist for when it’s okay to go off plan holidays, vacation. Now I have had clients who literally make a thing about vacationing every other month. That’s not that’s too much.
[Dani:]
Yes.
[Alice:]
But when but when you have like, you know, a vacation, once or twice a year, this is your time to enjoy your vacation and not eat on plan. Right?
[Dani:]
And sometimes not work out also. And like, exactly.
[Alice:]
Good point. Good point.
[Dani:]
Yeah.
[Alice:]
If you have a reason to celebrate, you know, whether that be maybe you got a new job, maybe you got a promotion at work, or just a win at work. Maybe you bought a new house, you know, or just when someone as long as they don’t do this often, someone out of the blue makes you something special, right? Something nostalgic, or Oh, I’m just trying to make you this cool vegan dessert.
This is the time when it’s like, take a step back and enjoy the moment and enjoy the food and have that just it’s going to bring more balance into your life.
[Dani:]
Yeah. And this is also a great shout out to flexible dieting, which makes a lot of these things easy to kind of have the best of both for my pushers. I know you’re sitting at home obsessing over the fact that you can’t accurately track all of this stuff.
That’s okay. You know, if you’re going to track on a day where you’re eating kind of weird food power to you, if especially if you and your coach have decided that’s an okay thing, and that makes sense for you, but you’re going to have to make peace with the fact that it’s going to be an estimate. And that’s okay.
Now, just to quickly flip back to the other side, right? Like, folks who are listening to this, like, you know, we can, we can find a reason to celebrate every goddamn weekend. Like, I know I can, you know what I mean?
Like, if that’s you, that’s not what we’re talking about. Like track your food, get as close to track like accurately as you can pick and choose what you’re going to say yes to who you’re going to say yes to. Maybe you do go out to a restaurant pretty frequently, but you have certain orders that you know, you’re going to get that, you know, they’re in line with your goals.
Like, see, this is why we could literally have two podcasts for almost every topic we talk about, because there’s different types of people. And that’s why I think it’s so important for you listeners to figure out which one you are. And you might hear a couple bits and pieces from both sides and be like, I guess I’m a little of this and a little of that.
Well, you may very well be trying to find that that journey to balance that we were talking about before. But I think most of us have a natural tendency and just recognizing where that is. It’s going to help you decipher our podcasts and videos and stuff, I think a little bit better.
I was just thinking of something that’s actually really, really tricky about both sides. Once they start, Oh, before I get into that really, really quick for the pusher folks, you don’t get bonus points for doing more than your workout calls for a lot of people think they’re going to get a gold star for doing their workout. And then some, and not only do you not get a gold star, that is, that is a, what is it demarcation?
Like we’re, we’re removing points. Okay. Like you lose points for doing extra.
Just want to let you guys know that. Um, but okay. If you have the pushers and the slackers and we have created programs that are ideal for each of them, here is the drawbacks, right?
The folks that need to be pushed often, they are going to start to see results with their eyeballs, right? They’re going to see the fruits of their labor of following the plan. Usually within a few weeks, they’re going to start to notice physical changes, mental changes, scale changes, measurement changes for the pushers.
Not only will it probably take longer for them to be able to see changes with their eyes, they might actually move in a direction they’re not happy with at first, which makes it even harder for them to trust that doing less or holding back is actually the right thing for them to do. So I think that actually those pushers, they are the ones that need to take a bigger leap of faith and really try to trust the process because they may have evidence in front of their eyes that this is not working at first and everything inside of them is telling them to stop and quit and just do what you were doing before. Cause it might not have been perfect, but at least it wasn’t this.
So that’s really tricky. Those are big conversations.
[Alice:]
Can I move to the slacker recommendations I got here?
[Dani:]
Sure. Yeah.
[Alice:]
I think number one thing beyond the obvious stuff is you’re going to have to be start living a more atypical lifestyle to reach your goals. You’re going to have to eat differently from the rest of your family most of the time. Now there are a lot of slacker personality types that you guys are powerful personality types.
You’re such a generous person. You help people so much that a lot of you, I have found have the power to literally make the rest of your household eat similarly to you. And I’m talking about whether this is turning your whole household vegan or having your whole vegan household eat healthier.
You guys, a lot of you have this power and it blows me away. Right. And if it’s, if maybe you have some of this power, right, maybe let’s just think about when is the time when you guys like eat the same foods, typically it’s going to be dinner time when you sit down at the table together.
So at least having the ability to be in charge of the food and having everyone eat similarly to you. Right. Now, if you don’t have these powers, then there’s going to be a point where you have to, there’s going to be a lot of points where you have to eat differently from everyone else.
And sometimes it’s going to feel isolating, but that’s the trade offs. Right. And it’s, it’s the reality that I feel like so many of my slacker type clients can’t accept.
Right.
[Dani:]
Um, one of the things that I tell my folks that are in this situation, especially if they’re in a situation where like we’re in a deficit because they want to lose like a fairly substantial amount of weight, I remind them this isn’t forever. You’re not going to be in a deficit forever. Yes.
Hopefully there will be aspects of your lifestyle that are in fact forever changed, but this period of significant weight loss is probably the weirdest lifestyle you’ll probably ever have. And it will get more normal after the fact. So that kind of puts a little bit of a deadline on it, but a lot of my clients that fall into this camp, they have a lot of FOMO.
They have a lot of fear of missing out on parties, social events, whatever. And, and you know, guess sometimes you’re going to miss out like that’s, there’s really, that’s really what it comes down to. Now you don’t have to be bodybuilder stoic, go full monk mode like Ben did at the end of his prep.
Um, but you can’t say yes to everything. And still move forward. You have to say no to some things and it sucks, but does it, does it suck?
Does it suck if you say no to a night out at a bar, but you’re moving forward towards your goals and feeling better and feeling healthier and feeling more confident. You don’t know yet because you’re not there yet. So.
[Alice:]
And so I don’t want to act like it needs to be all rigidity with the slackers. Right. Um, but here’s what I would recommend.
Um, like I’m not saying never give yourself some slack. Um, but instead I would challenge you to plan your flexible meal. And I, when I say that, I mean, down to the day, down to almost the time, at least the time, at least the like morning, afternoon, evening, right.
And plan exactly what you’re going to make or what you’re going to order on the menu and have this all planned so that nothing will be spontaneous. And this should happen once a week, right? For you to be able to reach your goals.
This is what it takes. It’s what it takes for you to be able to move the needle.
[Dani:]
And if you don’t move the needle, you’re going to demotivate yourself very quickly.
[Alice:]
You want to move the needle because I find that with my fitness slacker type clients, they want, they want to, they don’t want the diet to be all rigidity. They want to learn how to give themselves some slack and moderation. But if you open up the door to just like, Oh, I’ll figure out my flex meal when it happens, that flex meal is going to happen on Monday.
And then Tuesday is going to come and you’re going to be, it’s time for another flex meal. And we’re not moving forward. It’s going to happen every single day.
[Dani:]
Again, like, like you were just saying, like, this is what it takes, right? You’re going to have to do X, Y, Z. And again, I think sometimes people hear us and they get confused, right?
Because I don’t live like that currently. Like, but that’s because I’m, I’m where I want to, like, I mean, don’t get me wrong. There’s always things we can all improve and there’s goals I’m working towards, et cetera, et cetera.
But I’m not trying to lose 20 or 30 pounds, you know? And when I was trying to lose not 20 or 30 pounds, but 100 pounds, you bet your ass. Like I was tracking every little thing and, uh, being very meticulous with, you know, with some slacking definitely here and there.
But now that once you’re in a place where you’re like comfortable enough to more or less maintain, flexibility is your best friend at that point. So really recognizing where you are in your own journey will help you determine how rigid or flexible you need to be. I mean, you should always be flexible with your methods, but I mean, how much slack are you giving yourself?
You can, you can quote unquote get away with a lot more when you’re just sort of happy to maintain where you’re at versus trying to make a big change.
[Alice:]
And for the gym, there’s going to have to be just rules, just rules that you don’t allow yourself to break. You know, we say all the time, you schedule your gym time and you make that a non-negotiable appointment on your calendar. You know, a lot of times, a lot of my clients find it easier when it’s butted up against something like it’s right before work, it’s right after lunch, it’s right after work, or it’s right before such and such thing in the evening.
If you don’t do family meals together, right? Have it butted up against something else and just setting yourself up for success with packing your gym clothes, if that’s what you have to do. And these are the rules.
And like Danny said, it’s not going to be forever, but it has to be for that said period of time for you to make a dent.
[Dani:]
And I have clients who, you know, I mean, we all have these days where it’s like, we are just not feeling it. Like, Oh my God, it is so rough for those clients that I know are kind of giving into every little whim to not go to the gym. I have a rule basically like walk through the door.
You don’t have to work out, but go walk through the gym door. And if you want to go home, you can go home. And I’m telling you, they don’t go home.
Once they’re through the door, they will do it. If someone has a home gym, I say, do your first exercise, just do your first exercise. If you want to stop after that, you can.
And it almost never happens because they do want to do this. It’s the hurdle. It’s the task switching.
It’s knowing that you have a challenge ahead of you. Like working out is hard, right? It’s not always super pleasant and thinking like, Oh, I don’t want to do that.
Like once you start, you’re like, Oh, this isn’t so bad. I got this. It’s another 30 minutes or whatever.
Uh, so that’s a good trick. And I find again, with my, not even with my, my, my slackers with me, like I do these tricks on myself all the time, because I struggle with this sort of thing as well, especially when it comes to leaving my house, I have to come up with strategies for that. So any little mind game you can play with yourself, I think can help.
[Alice:]
I allow myself to usually take a little power nap before I go into the gym because I have, I have plenty of days where you, yeah, I’ve, I’ve pretty much arrived. I haven’t walked through the door yet, but I parked my car and I really want to go home, you know? So that’s when I’m like, all right, we’re taking a 10 minute power nap right now.
And when I have that time to settle my brain, I I’m compliant. I get up and I go like that’s the trick for me.
[Dani:]
That’s awesome. See, that would never work for me, but I know lots of other people it would work for. Like I’d fall asleep in my car.
Police would be knocking on the window at two in the morning. Like, what are you doing here? Do you have any other tips for the slacker side?
Cause I got a big one. So I want to hear if it’s on your list.
[Alice:]
I think that the fitness slacker types are very motivated by the social aspect of everything. And so, yeah, if, if you can find someone that hopefully you just absolutely adore, because it does make a difference that will just like go all in on this fitness journey alongside you, you’re going to get a lot of reward and stick to it a lot more so than say a portrait personality type, right? You know, group fitness classes can be very motivating group challenges, like the group bat loss challenges, no.
And just adding for you, I would say, yes, add fitness hobbies and make sure there’s social opportunities and it can really be a breakthrough for you.
[Dani:]
Yeah. Like a running group or a hiking group, or maybe there’s a rock climbing gym near you. Like it doesn’t have to look like traditional exercise to be exercise.
And you know, a lot of times these hobbies beget other hobbies and you meet other people that have similar goals to you and maybe live this kind of similar weird lifestyle that you are trying to live. It helps to have other people to sort of model after when you have those folks around you. So that was mine as well.
[Alice:]
The family is not a lot of times your family is not going to be on the same page as far as eating the way you eat.
[Dani:]
Your family, your spouse, like that’s common and you can’t change anybody else, nor should you try. Like, you know, if you have the power and your family’s on board and you’re making dinner and everybody’s eating it, cool. But if you try to change everybody in your family, they’re just going to get pissed at you and resent you.
And we’ve made podcasts about this before. It’s not worth it. Just live by example, but you can find other people.
My last tip is actually for both sides, because I think it’s very important for both sides to find some system of accountability because they both need it and both need it for very different reasons. It is very easy to, you know, miss the gym for a day and then you look up and it’s like three weeks later and you haven’t worked out at all. Just like it’s very easy to be like, oh, well, I’m just going to, I’m just going to cut my calories a little bit because I feel a little bloated today.
And then it’s, yeah. And then it’s been, you know, two weeks and you’ve under eaten again. And now you’re like, you know, running 50 miles a week and adding extra sets.
And it’s like, you need, you both need permission and suggestion for different things. And obviously coaching is like a duh, a no brainer, but I understand that’s not in the cards for everybody. Find somebody and tell them what you need, because if you’re a pusher and you say to somebody, Hey, I need somebody to hold me accountable for my fitness goals.
And they don’t, they are not a coach and they don’t understand this stuff. They’re going to be like, yeah, good job. Great job dieting.
Like, but what you need is somebody to be like, Hey, you seem very stressed out. Like how are your joints feeling? Maybe eat more versus like the other side.
You need somebody, you need that friend to text you and be like, Hey, you said you were going to go to the gym today. Did you go, you have to know what you need. And then you have to ask for that thing.
And the cool thing about a coach is you don’t necessarily have to know what you need because it’s their job to figure it out. But if you are not going to be working with a coach or a trainer, and you’re going to talk to your friend or your spouse or just a gym buddy, like they need to know what you need and you need to ask for it clearly so that they can be there for you in that right way. But accountability, just, just a nudge to check in with yourself to see how you’re actually doing on the stuff you said you were going to do for sure.
[Alice:]
And just and just telling more individuals about your about what you’re doing and about your goals and why it’s important to you. Because sometimes you tell people about your goals, and they disagree, they’ll just be like, you don’t need that straight up to your face, they will say that. But if you express to them why you have these goals, it’s going to completely change the narrative.
And the more people you tell, the more you’re going to follow the plan and trust the process.
[Dani:]
Yeah, that is true. People will definitely try to dissuade you. And on both sides, like, it could be something that you think is very obvious to get you healthier or fitter.
And they’ll be like, you’re fine the way you are. And it’s like a very sweet sentiment, right? Like, it is a sweet sentiment.
You’re perfect. You don’t need to change. It’s a sweet sentiment.
But sometimes it kind of misses the point. You know, sometimes people are right. Like if you’re already killing yourself in the gym, and you’re like, hey, this year, I’m gonna run an ultra.
And your family is just like, what are you doing? Like, again, having some professional input, I feel like is so important here. Because a lot of times we just if you’re not trained, how would you know?
How would you know what is too much and not enough? It’s very hard to tell. Even like, like I said, even for certain coaches, like that’s why they have coaches because it’s just hard to gauge on yourself.
So anyway, I think I’ve said everything I have to say about this. How about you?
[Alice:]
I just have a story because talking about sharing your goals with people, and then them arguing with you, because it does happen on both sides of the fence. Everyone who is close to me knows that I am going into a build right now. And I’m telling every single person that I come across.
And if someone asks how I’m doing, you know, it’s likely going to come up. And I told someone who I’m not really that close to, that I’m looking to bulk and I’m looking to gain a certain amount of pounds and put on more muscle. And it’s for my competition and how much I’m loving competing this year.
And you know what she said to me? No, you don’t want to put on more muscle because that muscle is just going to turn into fat when you get old. My mind was so blown.
[Dani:]
I was like, yeah, yeah. Everybody’s got an opinion, man. Everybody’s got an opinion.
It’s yeah. It’s, it’s really wild.
[Alice:]
What people will say to you to dissuade you. We know that’s not true. FYI.
It’s not true guys.
[Dani:]
Okay. Of course it’s not. Yes.
It’s definitely not true. And I feel like if, if I, if there was a mechanic in front of me talking about, I don’t know, freaking carburetors or something like that, I would just be like, yeah, sure, bro. Like, you know, whatever you say, cause you’re the carburetor guy.
Like, I don’t know. But when somebody starts talking, if somebody, a professional starts talking about fitness or health or nutrition, people do not respond the same way. They’re like, well, I have a body.
So my opinion counts and it’s just, it’s wild.
[Alice:]
It’s just, that was the craziest thing. Anyways, that’s it.
[Dani:]
Yeah. Well, I love that story. Cause it is man.
That’s a whole separate thing. Like bodybuilding post show. I have literally had people come up to me after shows and like grab my body, like grab my arms and be like, Oh, what happened?
And I’m just like, thanks. It was a little, very old man who goes to my gym, who English is not his first language. So I’m cutting him a lot of slack in a lot of places, but it was, I mean, that was a real thing that happened.
And I was just like, this is why people are afraid to let go of being super lean is because of things like that. Right. All right, guys.
Well, hopefully this was a helpful podcast for you. Hopefully nobody took any like offense to the word slacker come up with a better, tell me a better word, right? Like that’s, there’s no offense meant here because I’ve been that slacker many times in many areas, but if you’re interested in any kind of one-on-one coaching, that is what we do.
That’s what we’ve been doing at vegan protein since 2008. So go ahead and in the show notes, there’s an application, fill it out. One of us will respond to you.
If you’re not already subscribed to us on YouTube, please go ahead and do so. And if you have any questions, just shoot us an email coach at vegan proteins.com. And one of us will send you a video message back.
Thank you so much for tuning in. Once again, my name is Dani.
[Alice:]
I’m Alice.
[Dani:]
And we will talk to you soon.
