In this episode, Dani and Ben explore what it really takes to build discipline — and why borrowing lessons from military training isn’t as simple as it sounds. They break down the difference between external and internal motivation, the role of routines and rituals, and how everyday civilians can cultivate true mental toughness without needing a drill sergeant. Whether you’re trying to build healthier habits or simply hold yourself to a higher standard, this conversation offers practical (and realistic) strategies to help you level up.
Highlights from this episode:
- Why true discipline must come from within — and why external pressure only gets you so far.
- How routines, rituals, and personal standards can set you up for automatic success.
- Creative ways to build mental toughness without going “full Goggins.”
- The power of reflection, accountability, and setting consequences that actually move you forward.
Tune in for an honest, relatable chat that goes beyond the highlight reels and into the heart of what it means to connect authentically.
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Transcript:
[Ben:]
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Mosley Card Russell’s Radio. My name is Ben. I’m Dani.
And this is episode…
[Dani:]
215. So, you just came back home. Is your family super excited that you’re back?
[Ben:]
I hope so. I think so, yes. Yes, they are.
And I’m excited to be back to see them and my dogs, of course. That’s a big one. And I’ll be moving to Cape Cod, which is the little J on Massachusetts, for those of you who don’t live in the Northeast or aren’t familiar.
So, that’s where I’ll be spending most of the summer and fall, which I’m looking forward to because I didn’t spend too much time there last year.
[Dani:]
Is your family already out there or are they still here?
[Ben:]
No, they go out to visit. It’s mostly kind of a summer home sort of thing that we use more during those months. But most of the time, they’re here kind of in the Boston area.
So, I’ll be mainly there but bouncing back and forth a little bit.
[Dani:]
Okay, cool. How was the drive back up?
[Ben:]
Pretty uneventful. Actually, I was very proud of myself. I only stopped twice the entire time.
So, on Friday, I drove up to visit some family in Chesapeake, Virginia. So, I was in Raleigh, North Carolina. It was about three hours up to Chesapeake.
Did that on Friday. Stayed over Friday, and then I woke up at like 6 on Saturday. And then I drove from – I left their house at 6 a.m. Saturday morning, and I got to my house near Boston at 6.30 p.m. in the evening.
[Dani:]
That’s like the cap for a day of driving is like somewhere around 12 hours. I drove East Coast to West Coast and back once by myself alone, and I learned that that’s it. After that, you just start like, I don’t know, dissociating.
You’re not paying attention to the road anymore. But, yeah, even that is a very long day.
[Ben:]
I think what trained me for it was – I may have mentioned this in podcasts before, but for Ultimate Frisbee tournaments, I went to school in Vermont, and the fields wouldn’t unfreeze until like April or May. So, we’d practice indoors, but tournaments are played outside. So, we would have to travel down to Georgia or Florida or South Carolina for these tournaments because the season runs while college is in session.
So, second semester, January through April, May, by the time it gets to the warmer months, at least in Vermont, the school’s out. So, for the college season, we would have to either drive or fly, and school doesn’t pay for flights. So, they would help us pay for rental vans, 12-passenger vans.
So, usually, we could fit the entire team in like two 12-passenger vans and a car. So, we would leave Thursday night. We would get out of classes, like maybe eat dinner at the dining halls, and we would leave Thursday night, drive through the entire night on Thursday.
[Dani:]
Did you guys have a driver, or did you guys have to switch off?
[Ben:]
We switched off. We didn’t have a driver. So, we’d all have to switch off and take turns.
And you had to do the certification process to become a driver. So, most of the underclassmen weren’t drivers. It was mostly the upperclassmen.
So, sometimes there wouldn’t be that many upperclassmen who were driving certified. Sometimes we broke that rule. But we would get there then like Friday, maybe midday or afternoon, just get settled into like the host hotel, or maybe we found somebody to stay with.
And then we would sleep Friday, hopefully get a good night of sleep. Then we would play all day on Saturday. We would play like five or six games, usually.
[Dani:]
And then leave Saturday night?
[Ben:]
No. So, then we’d sleep Saturday. And then Sunday, it would be like Saturday would be the bracket game.
Sunday would be the elimination games.
[Dani:]
Oh, okay.
[Ben:]
And we’d play the bracket on Sunday. And we’d probably wrap up by like 3 p.m. on Sunday. And then we’d go straight from the fields in our like sweaty clothes.
And like maybe get some food. And then we would just shoot it back up to Vermont. And then some people, we would get back on like Monday morning.
If you made a really good time, maybe like 10 a.m. on Monday morning. Some people would go right to classes.
[Dani:]
In the same clothes.
[Ben:]
Still in like their sweaty clothes from playing. It was crazy.
[Dani:]
You know, that actually I think is a pretty good segue into what we’re talking about. Because we’re talking about like military discipline training. And how that may or may not pertain to regular civilians.
But that sounds pretty like military brutal. In terms of like just being in incredibly uncomfortable conditions. I mean, I guess it makes sense that everybody’s probably like around 20 years old.
Which I guess is probably true of the military too. Most people are like younger that are in the military. Certainly in like basic training, I would guess.
But yeah, that sounds terrible. That sounds awful. That’s like the equivalent of like a flight to Australia or something.
In your sweaty gym clothes.
[Ben:]
Yeah, it was a bit over 20 hours usually to drive. I will say it made for very good bonding with all of your teammates.
[Dani:]
I bet.
[Ben:]
And spending all that time together.
[Dani:]
Like if one person has to pee and you have to stop for one person.
[Ben:]
No, you just tell them to hold it. Or you bring some plastic bottles with you.
[Dani:]
We don’t need to get into it.
[Ben:]
No, we don’t need to get into that. So military discipline training. You said that you did a little bit of looking into some of the ways that the military, I guess, preps people for what they’re going to encounter out in the field.
[Dani:]
Well, I was just thinking about like who are some of the most disciplined people on earth, I guess. I mean, I can’t speak for other countries, but certainly here. Like most of the clients and people that we work with, there are lots of different struggles along the way.
But I think one of the big ones for people is self-discipline and kind of doing the things you said you were going to do. I think that’s a huge, huge struggle. And thinking like how can we help civilians, for lack of a better word, improve their self-discipline.
Well, who are the most self-disciplined people? I shouldn’t even say most self-disciplined. The most disciplined people that I know are in the military.
And some of the most disciplined people that I know currently were in the military. And I have to assume that a lot of those habits they picked up there. Corrine is a great example of this.
He was a Marine for eight years or something. He is one of the most disciplined human beings I’ve ever met. Almost eerily so.
Like up at three in the morning to go train like while we’re on the road with being strong. And he’s like, he can fall asleep on a dime. Like if he’s like, it’s time for me to sleep, he like almost powers down like a robot.
And I was like, how do you do that? He’s like, they taught it to us. I was like, I want to know how to do that.
But, you know, I’m thinking, okay, they have to have found a way to systematically teach this, all of these skills across the board. Like what is that? How do you do it?
And I don’t know. I’m curious on your thoughts. So when I told you about this topic, what direction did you think we were going to take this topic?
I’m curious.
[Ben:]
Yeah, kind of like boot camp sort of thing. And maybe some of the tactics that they use there and maybe how that’s similar to what they do in the military. I think the first thing that comes to mind for me when I think about client that I work with and how to get them to remain more disciplined, I think about kind of coming back to their why behind their doing certain things, because that can carry you during times where maybe you’re lacking motivation more.
So then I think I was thinking about, well, how does that apply to the military and maybe how do they get people to buy into the mission there? And I think about, you know, I have a very rudimentary understanding of this. So this is going to be kind of just me, an outside perspective, which I think will be interesting, having not done kind of looking into it, maybe to the extent that you have.
But having some sort of shared mission or shared sense of the people around you are relying on you and you’re relying on them. And so kind of creating this team effort or this team environment. I think that’s why things like CrossFit can work really well, because it’s kind of like this other people accountability, like community support.
It’s a little bit different because there’s almost like a mandate in the military where it’s more optional for these other things. And I know I was talking to you about this book that I read recently about cults and some of the mindset.
[Dani:]
Did they bring CrossFit up in that? They did.
[Ben:]
They did. They took it through a spectrum.
[Dani:]
Did they bring vegans up in it?
[Ben:]
Little mentions of it.
[Dani:]
Okay, I’m kind of curious.
[Ben:]
So one of the main points is that there’s not necessarily a definition of what a cult is. And people who research these things have kind of been getting away from that term because it basically like by labeling something as a cult, we kind of are dismissive of the intelligent people who end up kind of being in that. Or it’s like, okay, are we using cult in kind of like a pop culture like way to describe something like, oh, CrossFit or vegan.
It’s like, that’s totally a cult versus maybe what people would think of as more of a conventional cult. And so they go through all these different, this spectrum of like what people would consider to be cults like Jonestown or like Heaven’s Gate versus things like social media influencers. There’s a whole section of the book talking about that and MLMs. And so I think oftentimes it’s about the language used and the way that these communities or these groups kind of identify. And so I think maybe in the military, it’s this sense of we’re working towards the shared goal. How do we get people to buy into that? Relying on the people around you, trusting in the people around you.
That’s kind of one of the first thing that comes to mind for me. And then I’m trying to think about how you would tie that in with fitness. I think of like having a community, like having like, you know, vegan proteins or having people around you who maybe are doing similar things or surrounding yourself with people who you can kind of share your goals with and your mindset with.
And that can kind of keep you on the path. So I’m not sure if anything came up like that when you were.
[Dani:]
Yeah, kind of. So first of all, if you haven’t listened to the podcast, is it a cult or is this a cult? Every episode they tackle a different one.
And it’s just two girls and they like examine all the different quote unquote criteria for if something’s a cult. And some of them are really interesting, like chiropractors. Is it a cult?
Like really interesting stuff like that. You might like it. I still do want to check out that book.
But yes, everything that you just said about the why, I think is one of the things that sort of separates the military from like regular civilians who maybe just want, you know, how many people I’ve said it. I remember saying it. I wish I could just go to boot camp and then like not be in the military.
Like, I just wanted that discipline instilled in me, but I didn’t actually want to be in the military at all. But so I thought I was going to be able to like look through their documents and be like, these are the steps people need to take to which other people have done. This isn’t a new idea.
But then as I was looking through it, I was like, well, there’s a couple of things that make it very different than a than a civilian one. I don’t actually think it is self-discipline. It’s it’s discipline that is put upon you by the training itself.
And I think because of that, there is absolutely a line of like what here can be applied in the same way, unless you want to hire somebody to follow you around and like crack a whip on you.
[Ben:]
So that was kind of a flaw in my initial thinking, which is what some people expect when they hire a coach is they expect the person who’s just going to like crack the whip and tell them, tell them what to do and berate them when they do something wrong. And it’s always a tricky conversation to have with somebody.
[Dani:]
Yeah. And some people do kind of thrive a little bit more in that kind of an environment to a degree. And for me, like I can kind of recognize that in some people and be like, this person needs me to be a little harsher than I might be with somebody else.
Like it’s going to help them. But the other major, major, major thing that I think makes it like you said, CrossFit and the community and you’re relying on each other totally. But in the military, it’s like it’s literally life and death.
Like you are relying on the person next to you to possibly save your life and vice versa. And I think that adds a level of pressure that hopefully you can’t replicate anywhere else in the world. So I think those two things make it sort of not repeatable in real life, which kind of makes my whole premise of this conversation quite a bit trickier.
But I still think that there are things that the military does when they’re training soldiers that can be applied to, you know, everyday people just trying to improve their health and fitness or just even their discipline in other areas of life. Like I mentioned Corinne’s training and his eating, but like he’s disciplined in literally every area of his life. You will never show up and see Corinne dressed like a slob.
Like it just doesn’t happen. Anytime we go out, like after we’ll be working for 12 hours at a veg fest and we’re all in our just like kind of sweaty, ratty, vegan strong clothes. And then it’s like, OK, we’re going to go to dinner at this place.
And he just like pops into the bathroom and comes out in a suit. And we’re just like, whoa, way to make us all look bad. And it’s it’s consistent.
And I assume that has that has got to come from some of his background in the military. And I’m not suggesting everybody needs to live like that. But it is it is kind of an admirable thing when you see somebody that is just like kind of that on the ball about everything.
I’m going to have to send this to him afterwards. At some point, I should probably have him on to talk about this in more detail since he knows more about it than anybody else on our team. But I think one of the first things that I noticed when I was reading more into this is that the military, they have standards for everything.
Like there is a standard operating procedure for every little thing they do right down to I’m sure many people have heard it’s like how they make their bed. Like it has to be made a very specific way. If it’s not, someone’s going to come in and rip it apart and be like, do it again.
And it’s not just their bed. It’s it’s their uniform. It’s the way they stand.
It’s the way they talk. It’s the way they do everything. And I mean, it sounds like overkill, but I think that I know a lot of people that could probably do well to set some standards for themselves up that they like personally refuse to drop below.
What do you think about that?
[Ben:]
Well, you hear people say a lot in our space, our industry that we work in, how you do one thing is how you do everything. People say that a lot. And I think that there is definitely some truth to that.
And even just looking at the military, there is going to be some amount of carryover because like you said, some of the most disciplined people you know were in the military. So it’s like, yeah, just maybe not everything carries over and maybe not all people are like that. But there has to be some amount of these traits that are instilled in you, probably because like you said, of the high stakes there of it being more or less a do or die situation.
And so I think that certain things like a common example people say is make your bed in the morning because that’s like how you start your day and it sets you off on the right foot. To think about nutrition, oftentimes it is not like breakfast where somebody is like screwing up on something. It’s like breakfast is kind of an easy way to like, okay, I’m going to start my day with something good for myself and that can kind of cascade the rest of your day.
Whereas if you start your day maybe in a way that’s not so great, maybe you start your day in a way where like you get into an argument with somebody first thing and it kind of like snowballs in the rest of your day. I think those are just examples to illustrate that you can kind of set yourself up by having these little things, these standards that you hold yourself to. And I think having standards and then it kind of ties into like having data and like metrics to track to make sure that you’re actually making progress and doing things.
And we have a whole podcast episode on data tracking and when it’s useful and when it’s not useful. So I would say go and check that out. But having ways to really measure your success and your progress is important because it keeps you objective and it lets you know like, hey, am I holding myself to this standard?
And if not, what do I need to change?
[Dani:]
And having like objective standards, I think, because saying like I’m going to eat a healthy breakfast, you know, what is that?
[Ben:]
I’m going to have this amount of protein, I’m going to have a serving of fruit, I’m going to do whatever it is.
[Dani:]
Or like in my very weird case, it’s like I eat this thing every day for breakfast until I decide otherwise.
[Ben:]
Oh yeah, I can relate to that.
[Dani:]
Yeah, that’s like my standard for breakfast. And, you know, other standards that kind of don’t have anything to do specifically with fitness. But like when I first started full time doing this as a career, like I’m in front of my computer all day.
I don’t have to get dressed. Nobody can see me from here down. And I very quickly realized like, nope, that needs to be like a standard.
And I remember when everybody started working from home during the pandemic. I put out this, it was just like an Instagram post with like a sample schedule of what a day working from home could be like. Because I remember when I started doing that and I just everything felt so amorphous and like blobby and one thing would flow into another.
And there was no structure to it. And I just felt like, even though I was still doing stuff, I just felt like a lump all the time. And I was seeing other people start to feel that way.
Like they didn’t even know what to do with themselves now that their whole schedule was changed. And I remember being like, you have to make your own schedule. You have to set your own standards and then you have to stick to them, which is hard.
It’s still hard sometimes. But anywhere you can find a place, especially if it’s feeling bad and like it’s not moving you towards something that you want to get to. If you can set a standard for yourself.
And the tricky thing is, and this is the other thing pertaining to the military. And I tried to look it up because I was very curious. Like, okay, what percentage of people that go through basic training or are in the military for four years or something?
How many of them carry those habits without the external pressure of having to continue doing them? And I don’t know, there’s no data on it. So obviously I know some people who have, but I also know some people who have not.
So, you know, how much of it is external versus internal? And I think that’s the piece where there’s not going to be crossover from the military. Not much.
Like, if you’re doing this for yourself, the motivation has to be largely internal. And that’s really tricky. I mean, I think a really interesting podcast would be like how to generate internal motivation.
Because there’s a lot of ways to pull in external motivation, like on purpose. But I don’t think that that’s like the best way to motivate yourself. I mean, do you think the same thing?
[Ben:]
About having it be more external? Yeah, I would say that usually I’m trying to get people to rely more on, we come back to this a lot, their why behind doing something. I think it’s harder because it requires a lot of self-honesty and reflection.
And sometimes people feel like I just don’t have the time to sit down and think about what I want to do. I’m too busy trying to go to my job and drive my kids to soccer practice and prep these meals and do these things. Like, I’m just trying to do all the things.
And I don’t have time to think about like why I want to do it and why I behave the way that I do. And so I think trying to carve out a little bit of that time for self-reflection. I think five or ten minutes a day can be really helpful.
People often talk about things like journaling and having that as a scale. But if you can think about what is ultimately the reason that you’re doing something. Because sometimes people just do stuff just because.
And they don’t necessarily have reasons behind why they’re doing that. And then if you actually question them on like, okay, why are you doing this? It might be because they feel like they have to do it a certain way.
Or this is the way that they’ve been taught. Or this is the way that they’ve been told. But if they kind of realize you don’t have to do it a certain way.
And sometimes that takes an outside perspective like a coach to come in and say like, oh, that’s interesting. I wonder if you would be open with me sharing a couple other ways that you could potentially do it. And they’re like, oh, wow, I didn’t even know that.
And sometimes they realize like, oh, this thing that I thought I cared about, I actually don’t really care about.
[Dani:]
Right, yes. I was thinking all of that before you said it when you were like, it takes a lot of honesty. So many times if I’m talking to somebody about, well, why do you want to do this?
A lot of times the answer is something a lot. Like as they dig into it, they realize it’s just because they think they should. It’s just because for some reason, somebody, somewhere, something planted this idea that they just should.
That should be an ultimate goal. And that’s not enough. Like that’s not a good enough reason.
I don’t think that’s going to be a thing that actually generates like good internal motivation for anything. You’re just going to, most people will end up just resenting it and being pissed off about it. And having resistance to doing the things they need to do to get there.
So, yeah, that I think.
[Ben:]
I think where the external ties in though is because sometimes you need these little like short term carrots to dangle in front of people. Or to have that during those moments to look outside of yourself. Because sometimes you can really think and sit and reflect on like, this is why I really want this.
But you need a little bit of that. Okay, I’m actually making progress here. Or like some inspiration or some motivation.
I think that some of those things can help. I’m going to be an adjunct. Something like a vision board where it’s like something external that you can actually look at that can help you kind of like.
Yeah, it is external, but it’s an external reflection of like internal motivators for you most likely. Do you have anything you want to add about that?
[Dani:]
Well, when I think of external motivators, I think of people being afraid of what other people think. Or specifically wanting validation from either certain people or maybe like a competition. Like they want the trophy, that’s the motivation.
And I do think those are really powerful. Like they are powerful motivators for people like wanting to, you know, look like a smoke show. The next time you happen to bump into your ex-boyfriend, that’s a powerful motivator.
But it’s short term. And like once you achieve that thing, if you achieve it, then you just feel like very lost. And I’ve had lots of external motivators.
A spite is an outstanding motivator. But once you cross that bridge, then it’s like, okay, now what? Whereas I feel like if you have a good why, like a good why that you really sort of understand it can work with, that isn’t temporary.
Like it can change over time. But it’s not like you show up and just are lost then after that point. But how to get there, I think is a much trickier thing.
Because the external stuff is like the shiny object, you know.
[Ben:]
It can also be hard to hold yourself to certain standards once you set them for yourself. Like you mentioned, okay, in the military, you have somebody who’s like breathing down your neck 24-7. And they are the enforcer.
They are making sure that, okay, these are the standards that we have set for you. And we are going to enforce them. And then when you get out of that and now kind of going back to fitness, okay, you might have somebody who’s, you might view someone as an authority figure if you have like a coach or something like that.
Maybe that’s the relationship you have. I would say that’s probably not the healthiest relationship long term. Sometimes, like you said, you need a little kick in the pants.
That’s fine. But usually you want somebody who’s more of a guide than they are kind of…
[Dani:]
Drill sergeant.
[Ben:]
Yeah, a drill sergeant. And so, you know, having a coach can be somebody who can help you hold yourself to or help you hold you to those standards. But if you’re kind of doing it yourself, I think there also has to be some sort of system in place.
Like once you’ve set those standards to know, like, am I going to actually hold myself? Like if I’m falling short of those, am I going to have strategies or tools where I either readjust or refocus and I recognize, okay, maybe those standards weren’t realistic or just having some sort of accountability. Maybe that’s a friend or a partner or a family member or whatever it is to, yeah, you know, actually like kind of make sure that you’re keeping tabs on yourself.
Because if you set these standards, but then you’re not hitting them and they don’t actually do anything for you, then it could be discouraging or it could just be kind of counterproductive.
[Dani:]
Super discouraging. And that was actually one of the next points that I learned as I mean, I kind of knew it, but seeing it in black and white is different. That they just have, they have really, in the military, you have very close supervision and like basically immediately corrective action.
So you get immediate feedback if you did something wrong or like not up to the standard. And there is usually some corrective action taken, like basically a punishment. I’ve been really kind of chewing on that.
Like, is that something that people should do? Because we’ve seen people do this, right? Like, oh, well, I overate yesterday.
So today I’m going to under eat to make up for it. Or I missed this workout. So now I’m just going to do two in a day as sort of like, you know, they might not view it as punishment.
They’re just trying to like make up for it. And I actually, I don’t hate the idea of kind of giving yourself a consequence for not sticking to your word. If you had every reason to be able to stick to your word.
But I don’t think, I don’t think those are very good consequences at all. I think they’re very counterproductive.
[Ben:]
I think if you could have a way to set up that system for yourself without invoking guilt, it would be useful. But the guilt component makes it so tricky because that’s what gets you in that cycle of doing the consequence. And then it’s tough because there’s physiology involved here too with food.
And, you know, it’s not like in the military. I mean, maybe there have some sort of thing with like food and like deprivation. Maybe during some times.
[Dani:]
I don’t think so. So it’ll be like, oh, your uniform isn’t pressed up to code. Drop it.
Give me 20. Like they’re not really super related to one another. I mean, I’ve heard of sometimes people having to, you know, a lot of times the punishments are either having to do certain chores that no one else wants to do or physical physical feats.
You know, like you have to just run laps for the next hour, maybe while other people are having lunch. But it’s not like you overate. So now you have to under eat.
[Ben:]
It’s not like that. One thing I was thinking of with the immediate feedback thing was like personal trainers. Like if you’re doing training in the gym and I mean, we can do this online, right?
When clients send us form feedback, it’s not as immediate because we’re not there in the moment with them in person. But having a personal trainer, it’s like one of those things where you’re doing a form or an exercise and immediately you get that feedback of like, oh, correct this thing this way. So I think that there are certain applications I can see or certain crossovers where that would be useful.
And it’s not like, you know, you need to have that person there all the time, but it can be maybe helpful at times to have a little bit of that oversight.
[Dani:]
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Personal training in the gym, you get immediate feedback. You know, I think that the way that we communicate with our clients where, yes, they have a weekly check in.
But also if something really weird and crappy happens on Tuesday, like they could always message us and they’ll probably hear back from us like that day or the next morning maybe. So that’s pretty close to immediate feedback. Immediate feedback, I’m all for.
The consequences, I feel like that’s where there’s a part of me that’s like, well, I’d be more likely to do something if there was a consequence if I didn’t do it. But what would be a consequence that would make sense or be proportionate to the thing? And I was really trying to think about it because I hate the idea of extra workouts or less food or anything in that regard.
But maybe like you have to put a dollar in a jar or something.
[Ben:]
I was thinking about that, you know, like those websites or something that you can set up where it’s like if you don’t do something.
[Dani:]
It’ll donate to something you hate?
[Ben:]
Yeah, or like it’ll do something like that if you don’t do it by a certain time or if you visit this website, it’ll have some sort of consequence associated with it.
[Dani:]
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think that’s a terrible idea, actually. I mean, I guess you got to know, again, it’s like you said, the guilt, the shame. If it’s that sort of thing, I think that both of those things can be helpful in very small amounts in very specific situations.
But just like as a blanket sort of feeling anytime you do something wrong, I don’t think that it’s very helpful. In fact, I think it’s usually pretty harmful.
[Ben:]
It’s tricky, though, because there’s not going back to the example of the military. They’re there with you live with them like 24-7. There’s constantly somebody there around you, so there’s no chance of hiding a mistake or keeping it from your coach like with us.
If there is consequences that are enforced as a result of something, like let’s say somebody goes over on their calories and there’s a coach who’s like, all right, you’re dropping your calories the next day. They might not tell you next time, whereas in the military, if you make a mistake, it’s going to be seen. It’s going to be noticed.
[Dani:]
And it’s 24-7. I do a lot of events where I have to be on where I’m talking to people, but the second I walk behind a closed door, I’m always like, you don’t get to do that in the military. The second somebody walks into the barracks or whatever, you have to be up at salute and everything needs to be perfect.
[Ben:]
I think it’s probably a reason not to, this is tangential but related, the videos of the Goggins-type content where it’s like, who’s going to carry the boats? You’ve got to want it bad enough, all this sort of stuff. I feel like often it is pretty performative for social media.
And if you were to talk to some of these people in real life that you meet who are really disciplined, like Corinne or other people who’ve been in the military, I’m sure they would probably say, yeah, a lot of the stuff you see out there is either stuff that’s good or bad. It’ll be like a Marine reacts to some influencer Marine saying something like, we never did that. That’s unrealistic.
That’s not something that happens. To the point where there’s sometimes people who are even faking, like it’s Stolen Valor, where they’re like, oh yeah, I did this or I did that. Because it’s displaying a certain kind of persona that people want to emulate.
People look up to these people because they’re heroes. They’re serving our country. And so there’s some sort of, there’s like an emotional attachment there, but it’s not always, what I keep thinking about is it’s just not always a direct carry over and application to the stuff that we, it’s not life or death.
What we’re at least immediately right now, it’s not life or death. Maybe that’s another component to it too. It’s like, you know, our health is a deterrent.
It is life or death. Yeah, it is life or death, but you don’t see it. You don’t get that immediately back for 20, 30, 40 years.
[Dani:]
We are not working with people who are like at that store. You know, that’s way beyond our scope. Sometimes we work with people who have type two diabetes or maybe they’re on blood pressure medication or something.
So like they’re starting to see if I don’t get my shit together, this could end very badly for me. But it’s not, it’s not quite the same.
[Ben:]
You don’t get that immediate feedback. There’s not that pressure.
[Dani:]
You know, like they do a lot of drills in the military where, you know, they use like simulations. I didn’t actually look at what that entails, but I’ve, I’ve seen actually villages where they look like ghost towns, but actually they’re used for simulations for various types of military drills. I imagine they use stuff like, like paint balls or something like that to show like, Hey, if this, if this had been real, you’d be dead right now.
Like that is, that’s gotta be pretty powerful feedback. Imagine if we had some version of that in like nutrition, like if you keep eating like this simulator, like you’re going to be here in 25 years.
[Ben:]
Like, yeah. Or it, it, like you had some sort of thing that tracked it. Like when you ate that, like yesterday you deposited like 204 grams of body fat.
Like if you had that exact feedback or something like that, people would probably be like, Oh, I got it. Cause you can’t see it.
[Dani:]
My fitness pal does stuff like that. I don’t know if you ever, I don’t use this feature because I’ve found it to be bullshit. But at the end of the day, when you like finish your, your day and you click like, I don’t know, finalized day.
It’s like, if you ate like this every day, you’d weigh blah, blah, blah, 12 weeks. And it can either be really exciting number or a really scary number, but I haven’t found that to be right.
[Ben:]
No. And I think, you know, our physiology is way more complicated than that, which is why I’m like, if you had some sort of tool that could actually measure the physiology of it and you knew it was accurate. Kind of like the immediate feedback again, hit with the red paintball and you knowing right then and there, like, Oh crap, like this is what’s happening.
Like I said, it’s kind of tricky. You don’t get that immediate feedback. Like you, you know, inherently that, okay, maybe things didn’t go the way that you wanted it to, but it just, it doesn’t show up immediately.
It shows up in three, six, 12 months, a couple of years from now. And you’re like, how did I get here?
[Dani:]
Yeah. There’s, there’s just, there’s just a lot of stuff to think about here. So you mentioned the David Goggins type.
So I did actually read his book. You can’t hurt me. And I’m always of a really mixed mind when I read these kinds of things, because they are really inspiring.
Like if half the shit in that book actually happened, it’s pretty impressive. But on the flip side of it, like there is no reason why your average person should be living like that. You know what I mean?
You know who I actually like a bit more than David Goggins is Jocko Willink.
[Ben:]
Yeah. I know Jocko. He’s become kind of another one of these like massive figures in the film.
[Dani:]
I haven’t watched any of his new stuff. Like, I don’t know if his vibe has changed a lot, but his sort of basic core principles of like, what are they? Like extreme ownership of your own decisions and actions.
I wish I could remember them all. Most of the stuff that he said, even though I’m, I’m not like an extremist in any of those directions. I’m like, I’m like pretty on board with most of the stuff that he says about like leadership and how just the way people should lead by listening more and talking less.
And most of it I hear it and I’m like, okay, I don’t know if he’s one of those crazy over the top types, but he was a Navy SEAL for a long time. And everything I’ve read of his, I’m like, yeah, I’m pretty on board with all of that stuff. So I like him quite a bit.
[Ben:]
Yeah, I think the major, I would say trap or just thing to keep in mind for people who really like consuming that kind of content is sometimes it can be this thing where by reading or consuming content that has this really like inspirational, like self discipline, like, oh man, like that’s so cool vibe to it. You almost get the reward by listening to it and like living like vicariously through that person. It’s kind of like the person who makes this elaborate plan and lays everything out.
It’s the perfect plan and you get this dopamine hit by like, oh, I just made this amazing person, but then they never actually do it.
[Dani:]
Or listens to a bunch of podcasts about their physical fitness and health, but never actually takes any action to improve it. I’m looking at you guys. Yeah, I agree.
And I, when I started, there was a phase where I was so into like, like self help type of books, and I still generally enjoy them, but I stopped listening to them because I noticed that’s exactly what was happening. I was like feeling like I had done something when all I had done was read somebody else’s words and hadn’t actually done anything. But I do think there’s, there’s a few books I’ve read over the years that like, if you, I found if I actually am able to sort of internalize some of the messages and apply them, it’s not actually like steps you do or anything, but I’ve found them to be helpful.
And I think it was extreme ownership or maybe it was discipline equals freedom or something like that. And I, for somebody who’s as laid back as I am, I actually was like, yeah, agreed on most of that stuff. But back to that one point about like corrective action and consequences.
Like, I think, I think trying to come up with some consequences that sort of make sense for yourself. Like, if I don’t do this, then blank. The money one, I think is a good idea.
Donating to something you hate. That would be a huge motivator, I think. Or even I was thinking like, oh, if I was planning on going to something, but didn’t the stuff I said I was going to do all week, it’s kind of like what my parents would do when I was a kid.
Like, you’re not going to that party this Friday because you were a little punk all week. Fair. Like, maybe something like that.
[Ben:]
Do you think there’s a way to do it in reverse too, where it’s like, if you have this level of consistency with this thing, you get, I mean, we talked about extrinsic and intrinsic motivation, having it be more reward based.
[Dani:]
Definitely. So I’ve always been like publicly a big advocate of having rewards for yourself when you achieve X, Y, Z. In the same way, I don’t think the punishments should be related to food or fitness.
I don’t think the rewards should be either. Like, it’s not, oh, I reached my goal weight, so I’m going to go celebrate with a pizza. Like, that’s a slippery slope.
But, you know, I’m going to reward myself with a new hoodie, or I’m going to go to, I’m going to go spend the afternoon in the library or bookstore or take myself to the movies or something. Like, I love stuff like that. The problem I’ve run into with a lot of my clients with this, and I’m curious if you have too, is I say, come up with some reward ideas for yourself when you reach these.
We’ll talk about them. We’ll make them the most appropriate ones possible. And they’ll come up with some, but they’ll be like, but it’s not really that exciting to me because if I want to do something, I just do it.
Okay. Well, that makes it a little bit trickier then, like, because that sort of like treat yourself mentality has just become so, like, I deserve a little treat all the time every day. It makes it so like when you actually want to reward yourself for something, it’s like you need bigger and bigger things to do it in order for it to still be satisfying.
So I’ve never, ever, ever talked about, like, maybe a consequence for not doing what you say. Maybe that is kind of a good idea. This is the first time I’ve ever brought forward this particular idea.
So I don’t know about it yet. I’m not 100% sure on it, but I think maybe. But again, you’ve got to enforce it for yourself.
[Ben:]
Right? I think for the right person, it could work. I think for certain people, it would probably backfire having a consequence if they really are somebody who tends to beat themselves up a lot and they wouldn’t be able to enforce that in a way that just gets them kind of this back into their rhythm and flow.
Like if it sends them into kind of a spiral. Yeah, it’s tricky. I think in terms of my experience with like rewards and that sort of thing, I think you make a good point about like people can do.
So it has to be a bigger thing. Like it has to be this really big concert that I’ve wanted to go to, but I haven’t been doing it because it’s, you know, it’s pricey or like this vacation that I’ve been wanting to take. It probably has to be something like that, but it’s hard not to make it like monetarily tied to something.
[Dani:]
Yeah.
[Ben:]
Like what if that’s something that’s not in the cards for you, then how can you find a reward there? It’s tricky.
[Dani:]
It is tricky. And that kind of brings me to my next thing that they do in the military is they specifically work on mentally conditioning people. They put them in mentally very challenging situations so that they have to learn to be really uncomfortable.
Like they just have to get used to being mentally uncomfortable. So, I mean, sometimes it’s physical and mental, but an example would be like, I don’t know, standing at attention in the rain for six hours or something. That’s not actually physical.
I mean, standing for six hours is probably hard, but it’s not like you’re going to die standing for six hours. But like mentally, I just think about myself trying to run for 30 minutes. Physically, it’s actually not that bad.
Mentally, my brain is like, stop, stop, stop, stop. With every footfall, it’s like, what are you doing? And I think there is a lot of value in doing stuff that is hard.
And I know we talk a lot about how like you’ve got to make fitness something fun, something that you look forward to, make your meal stuff that you look forward to. And I totally think that is incredibly important for longevity. But I do think sprinkling in some stuff that maybe is not super fun or you don’t love just to prove to yourself that you can do it.
I know I’ve done that a lot in my life. I ran a 5K, like I did a race a couple of summers ago, realized I hate running. And I’m actually I’m running another race this summer, but it’s an obstacle race.
It’s different. Just to say to myself, because I’ve told myself my whole life, I can’t run. Like I’m not a runner.
I hate running. I can’t do it. I just needed to show myself, no, you can do it.
I’m not going to do it anymore. But I’ve done it with certain foods that I don’t love, but I know that they’re like really good for you. And maybe I should just stop being a baby and see if I can get better at consuming them.
I think there’s a lot of value in that. Have you done anything like that for yourself where it’s like, I’m pretty sure you have.
[Ben:]
When I was walking like 35,000 steps with a 20-pound weighted vest during my prep to prove to myself that I could do it every day, stuff like that.
[Dani:]
Okay, maybe not quite that extreme.
[Ben:]
The one that you said about like the foods, like incorporating ones that I know I don’t really, or trying to find ways to have those, even if I’m not a huge fan of them. Like, I don’t know, put in some, I don’t know, like flax seeds and something. Or something, I don’t know, some vegetable I don’t really like, trying to find a beet.
That’s not a vegetable I don’t like. I think the nice part with nutrition is there’s not a ton of foods that are like must-haves so you can find a way around it. But yes, pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.
I can think of a couple examples with both training and nutrition that kind of, I was thinking about as you were saying it. So with training, maybe you have somebody who’s not used to pushing themselves that hard. You could give them, and like every time they start to feel like that burning in their muscles, like they might give up on a set.
So maybe give them some high rep sets on like an exercise that it’s safe to do that on. And you say like, I want you to really learn how to push yourself here. You give them some drop sets or some super sets or something like that.
That’s going to challenge them. Or you put them on an isolation machine and say, I want you to go to failure on your last set. And make sure that they’re doing that.
Because that’s building that mental toughness. You could also, you know, Cliff Wilson has a really good saying. He’s like one of the best natural bodybuilding coaches.
And his saying is like, or maybe not a saying. But he says that the competitors that he works with who are the most successful are not the ones who are doing, who say I will do what it takes to be successful. Even if what it takes is pulling back and not just pushing myself all the time.
So you could have somebody in the gym who is always taking everything to failure. And they’re pushing themselves super hard. And you’re like, I need you to leave a couple reps in reserve here on a few of your sets.
That could be something that is mentally hard for somebody. And it’s challenging.
[Dani:]
I have a client who she’s working on building grit. Just in general. And I actually think she’s already got quite a bit of grit.
And one of the things that’s happening is her work schedule has changed significantly. And like squeezing the cardio in is just, it’s not happening right now. And she’s really stressed about it.
The fact of the matter is she doesn’t need to be doing cardio. We’re doing cardio because she likes doing it. For her goals, it’s not necessary at all.
But it’s stressing her out so much. And that’s a really good example of week after week. I’m just like, this is the challenge.
The challenge is for you to not do the cardio and to be okay with it right now. Because that’s where we’re at. And it’s not necessary anyway.
So if you’re trying to build grit, there it is. Right there. It’s not always what you think it’s going to look like.
That is the hard thing. So I agree with you fully on pulling back. But I don’t always think that even for a fitness goal, you don’t just have to build mental toughness in the physical realm.
For me, I really struggle to have no stimulus. If there’s no podcast playing or music playing or something in my ears, I’m ready to crawl out of my skin.
[Ben:]
Are you ready to be alone with your thoughts?
[Dani:]
What a terrible idea. Just kidding, kind of. Yeah, I’m not happy when that’s happening at all.
My knee is bouncing. I’m just ready to find something else to read a book. This goes way, way back.
I realize I never ate breakfast without reading the cereal box. I used to read shampoo bottles in the bathroom. I’ve just always been like this.
And I’m realizing that is mentally tough for me. It has nothing to do with the physical whatsoever. Going to the gym without my headphones, for me, I’m there.
They’re at home. I can’t go get them. I’m not going to watch a video or listen to a podcast on my phone without my headphones.
That’s something that I’ve been trying to do more of because I’m already doing something physically challenging that also benefits from having my full attention as well. And if I’m not actively listening to a podcast or a story or whatever, it’s hard. But I can’t get out of it.
I’ve kind of trapped myself into that situation. And that builds mental toughness. And I think anywhere that you can find – Here’s my theory.
If there’s something you think you can’t do and you don’t have actual physical proof that you can’t do it, you should probably try and see if you can do it. Not all at once or anything, but I don’t like that feeling of I can’t, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I can.
Now it’s going to suck. I’m going to hate it, but I can do it. And I feel like that is a really good way to build mental toughness.
And that carries you. You’re going to have a hard time reaching any physique, fitness, whatever goals without mental toughness. So building it where you can, I think, is important.
[Ben:]
Yeah, I did that recently with coffee where I didn’t like the idea of not being able to go without it. So I was just like, I’m just going to do an experiment and see what it feels like to give up caffeine and not put an end date on it and just see, do I notice my sleep is better? Do I – just have it be purely curiosity, science, observation.
And the first – so this was the beginning of March, probably a week or two before the cruise that I started this. And the first three or four weeks, honestly, up until the past couple days, I’ve had probably like headaches almost every single day or like multiple times a day just at different points. And it’s only now that I feel like four weeks later or whatever or five weeks later that now it’s just like back to normalcy.
So that was something that was interesting for me.
[Dani:]
Yeah, and caffeine, people underestimate how long it takes to withdraw from caffeine.
[Ben:]
I did. I’m like, a couple days max, it will be fine.
[Dani:]
Have you ever got a chance to catch Robert talking about his caffeine addiction? Have you heard him mention it in any of his talks?
[Ben:]
With the yerba mates, that example?
[Dani:]
It’s really funny because I’ve heard him give this talk in front of people who have been like – I’m going to cry from laughing right now, that are actual drug addicts that have like actually hit rock bottom in these really horrible ways and he’s giving this talk about his yerba mate addiction. I shouldn’t laugh because it definitely was a real addiction and he gave it up cold turkey and he was just literally face down on the floor in his house for like two months basically. I mean he was drinking like six or seven yerba mate bottles.
[Ben:]
And he like didn’t realize that they had caffeine at first, right?
[Dani:]
Right, because he’s a lifelong drug and alcohol free person. He’s never had a cigarette. He’s never had a beer, nothing.
But he didn’t realize that he was like very addicted to caffeine. I remember when I met him, we used to joke about the five-hour energy drinks. We’d call it like 10 or 15-hour energy drinks because he’d do a bunch of them at once.
So it was a real addiction. But it is really funny to see the faces of like previous coke addicts in the audience like literally laughing at him when he says it. But yeah, him coming off of that was actually really – he had to go somewhere.
Like he had to go to a fasting facility and be overseen. So yeah, caffeine is brutal to come off of.
[Ben:]
That’s another good example of like doing some like a 24-hour, like 48-hour fast. Like just seeing like oh, could I actually do that? Because of course like if it starts to go longer like four or five, six, seven days, medically supervised, all those caveats, etc.
But doing one or two days by yourself.
[Dani:]
And I also think that the motivation for that is important.
[Ben:]
Oh yeah, sure.
[Dani:]
Because I know a lot of people who want to do that because they want to drop weight.
[Ben:]
Oh yeah, no.
[Dani:]
It’s a bad motivation to do that.
[Ben:]
Yeah, no. More for like the mental benefits of it I guess you could say.
[Dani:]
Yeah, it is definitely an exercise in mental toughness. Way back in the day when Giacomo and I met, we used to do a lot of stupid stuff. But one of the things we did multiple times were various types of juice feasts which includes smoothies, then juice fasts, then water fasts.
Physically, it was an absolutely terrible idea especially at the rate that we were doing them. But mentally, it was interesting because even if you’re on just a regular weight loss journey, you’re not fasting or anything, which you shouldn’t be, you’re going to get hungry more than you did when you were not on a fast. And that feeling of hunger inspires fear in a lot of people, anxiety in a lot of people, just feeling it at all.
It was like, ah, what am I going to do? Even just being like, I’m hungry, it’s okay, I’m going to be okay, I’m not going to eat for another 45 minutes. I can eat my meal in 45 minutes and it’s going to be fine.
That is like a little exercise in mental toughness. Or sometimes the opposite of that. I know some people trying to build and they’re just full.
It’s like, I know you are, buddy, I know, but we got to push it a little more.
[Ben:]
No, I mean when I was out visiting Sawyer a couple of months ago, my digestion, I ate something that was a little bit off and I just didn’t really want to eat food for a while. So I had a day where I was, the day after that I just did kind of liquids and still didn’t feel that great. So I’m just like, I’m just not going to eat for a day.
And I’m like, okay, I was definitely hungry, but I felt okay. I was still able to, we went and did a workout. And I’m like, oh, my strength was fine.
And I just kind of accepted the fact that I was going to be hungry and that was okay. And I think it was about like 48 hours and then I ate something. But I was like, oh, wow, I didn’t die.
[Dani:]
I was okay.
[Ben:]
And I could sit with the hunger. And just the knowing that I wasn’t going to eat something and I wasn’t constantly thinking about, oh, when’s the next meal. Like you said, it can inspire fear.
And you’re like, it’s like fear of starvation, I guess you could say. But you do it and you realize, oh, okay, it’s not a big deal if I go a couple hours without eating something.
[Dani:]
Part of that goes back to like the setting standards, right? If you are just hungry and you just never know when you’re going to eat again, it makes sense that you would, if you like literally didn’t have food, being hungry would be genuinely scary. But if you have like standards like, okay, I’m just not going to eat for a day or I’m not going to eat for 45 minutes, it helps you actually do hard things when you know what’s coming.
And that’s another thing that the military does a lot. They just have a ton of routines and a ton of rituals for every little thing. And this I’m actually a huge fan of because I’m just a big fan of systematizing everything because I have a bad memory.
So the more I can habituate stuff, the easier my life is going to be. The less I’m going to have to think about things throughout the day. And I think that’s kind of the point of why they do it there is like if they have you like repeat things over and over and over and over, when you actually need to do them quickly on a battlefield or something, you don’t have to think about it.
It’s almost automatic. And I think for healthy habits or things you’re trying to do, the more you can repeat them and ritualize them, the more likely you are to do it in general. And that’s kind of like an atomic habits thing too, where you like stack all the things together, but it works.
Like that’s why it’s so popular is because it works. So if there’s stuff that you struggle with, you know, a lot of people forget. I used to forget to take my creatine all the time.
And now I just have it in a jar next to my toothpaste. So I just, I’m going to brush my teeth every day. So I just remember to take it at night before I go to bed, which apparently I put in a video that I just like dry scoop the creatine.
And Alex told me I should have put a trigger warning on it or something. And I was like, Oh, is it that weird? I didn’t, I didn’t realize that.
[Ben:]
I like that idea of having certain, like even just like sayings that you say to yourself or that you kind of repeat over and over. Like it could be some cue that you give yourself in the gym when you’re doing an exercise to think about like really feeling and being aware of what you’re doing. It could also be something like, okay, if I’m eating a meal, what should I be focusing on?
Something that I say pretty often is like protein and protein and plants, which usually I try to plants meaning like fruits and vegetables. So if somebody makes that the bulk of their meals, they’re going to like, by default, you’re checking a lot of boxes there. So I feel like having those little things, little kind of cues you can say to yourself is helpful.
[Dani:]
Yeah, absolutely. And just things that you do and you probably already have a lot of these things that you do. You probably get up and wake up in the morning and do the same things every morning for like the first 10 or 15 minutes.
Like I think most people do, but you can carry that same concept into other into other places. I don’t always get to the gym at the same time every day, but when I get there, I always do the same thing. I like take my bag and go sit on the bench.
I set up all my things. I open my workout. I look at exactly what I’m going to do.
Like it only takes me, I don’t know, less than 10 minutes, but it kind of sets my mind at a calm. I’m not just like rushing in there, rushing over to my first piece of machinery and whatever, like that’s really helpful. And then the accountability piece there, my buddy, Jimmy, he usually goes to the gym around the same time as I do.
So whichever one of us gets there first sends the other one, a picture of themselves at the gym as like a, Hey, where are you? Get here right now. And that, you know, also ties into some of the other things we’ve talked about, just like having some external accountability as well, especially if you know yourself, if you know you’re the type of person who’s going to slip on yourself and not follow through, that’s where the external accountability becomes so important.
How many people have you worked with that knew what they were doing? They knew what they had to do. They could have written a plan for themselves that absolutely would have worked, but it didn’t work because they needed accountability somewhere.
Like, I think that’s probably the most common thing I hear from people. I had a, I have a client right now. I worked with him for years before, and then the pandemic happened and he was having like kids at the same time.
And we kind of separated for a bit, but now he’s back. And he’s just like, Oh my God, what a difference. Like just having somebody to like basically report my week to every week, like what a difference that makes.
And in the military, you don’t have to report anything because they’re watching it. But you know, if you can hold yourself accountable to reach out to somebody once a week, then hopefully if you got the right person, it’ll, it’ll work. Let’s see what else we talked about punishment and consequences.
I don’t like the term punishment. I don’t like punishment. Like I don’t like the idea of punishment.
[Ben:]
I like consequences more. Yeah.
[Dani:]
But it’s definitely punishment in the military. The other thing they do in the military with punishment and consequences is a lot of times, if you’re like with your troop and one person messes up, you all do the consequence. Right.
And I actually think that’s pretty applicable to real life. Like if you take, for example, like a family, if the person that pays the electric bill forgets to pay the electric bill that month, you all don’t have electricity, you know? So, um, I don’t really know how you could apply that nor really should you, but I think like having a workout partner, you know, if you don’t show up, they’re going to suffer too.
And I think that’s motivation to show up and vice versa. So a lot of this is like basic stuff that we’ve talked about before to be more successful. This is just like a pretty extreme version of it.
And some of it, I think people might actually be surprised to hear us talking about because we generally are so, um, it’s gotta be practical. It’s gotta be attainable. You’ve gotta be nice to yourself.
Like all of these things are true, but sometimes you, you have to, how would I word it? Sometimes you need to be a little bit tough on yourself. Sometimes if, if you’re too soft on yourself all the time, you can’t be surprised when things just squeak by all the time.
So finding that place for yourself. And like you said, if you’re the type of person that’s already too tough on yourself, don’t be tougher. That’s ridiculous.
But there’s a lot of people that are not too tough on themselves. There’s a lot of people that are too soft on themselves to really make forward progress. And then they’re kind of confused as to why they’re not making forward progress.
Um, I think this is why individual coaching is so important because none of the stuff we’re saying is like blanket. Everybody should do it, except maybe having some standards for yourself, but it’s a very, very, very individualized. I know, I know for myself, like back when I started, I needed to be a little tougher on myself than I was probably being certainly in some areas.
And then in other areas, I needed to like cut myself a little bit of slack. And that’s the other thing it doesn’t have. You don’t just have to be one way about everything.
So I don’t know. And then the last thing that they say they do, I don’t know how, I don’t know how true this is, but they say that they encourage like reflection, like for people to reflect on like their actions or their behaviors, um, like personally without somebody telling them, Hey, you did this wrong.
[Ben:]
Well, that’s extremely valuable. I think in, in a, um, personal setting, because reflection is the key to understanding yourself more. And if you are behaving in a certain way that doesn’t feel good to you, that doesn’t feel aligned with where you want to be the person that you want to be, it takes that sometimes that self-reflection, maybe it is some sort of journaling or having a conversation with a friend or a coach.
Um, because what do we do as coaches? When somebody says something to us, we reflect, we reflect that back. We say, it sounds like you’re saying this, is this true?
Or this is what I’m hearing from what you’re saying. And sometimes just having that external reflection can be helpful, but that external reflection can be writing it down, looking at it on a piece of paper. And now it’s out of your head and you really kind of start to sink in.
So it’s like, you know, if you screw up, you have an oopsies, you make an error, whatever it is, instead of constantly like beating yourself up in your head about it, you can say, all right, what did I learn from this? What do I want to, you know, would I change anything? Because sometimes something happens that somebody doesn’t like, and it’s like, Oh, this thing totally went to shit.
And I’ll ask them, I’m like, okay, it went to shit, but could you have done anything differently? And would you do anything differently the next time? And they might just be like, no, it was just a crappy situation.
Sometimes that happens. And like, that’s a big learning instead of trying to just like beating yourself up about it. Whereas maybe it’s a different sort of thing that happens and you’re like, well, you know, I actually think I could have probably done this differently next time.
And so I’m like, okay, great. Now we’ve just learned something new that we can apply going forward. And next time you can implement that thing.
And it’s a constant like learning process that way.
[Dani:]
Yeah. I think it’s like, sometimes you like you personally get stuck in this, like loop of just like, Oh, I suck. I screwed up.
And sometimes it really does take somebody just maybe asking the right question that you wouldn’t come to on your own. And I think it can be hard for that person to be you necessarily, but you mentioned like seeing it in writing and suddenly it clicks. I, I had a therapist who I was told like journaling doesn’t work for me.
Like I enjoy it. I like writing stuff down, but it doesn’t change me or anything. And he said something like, well, you’re doing it wrong.
He was like, you’re just writing stuff down and just like never coming back to it. You have to come back to it. Like maybe not necessarily right then, but maybe like a couple of weeks later or a month later.
Or I mean, I’ve looked back at journals from like 10 years ago and I’m like, who is that girl? Like it’s so wild. But sometimes if something is too close, you can’t reflect on it.
Sometimes you need a little distance to reflect on it. Maybe you feel this way about prep now that you have more distance in between you and it. I have so many things I feel that way about that at the time I was just like so in it, so stuck in something that the reflection was almost just like ruminating more than reflecting.
But if you give yourself some space and look back on it, then sometimes even you without any external factors can come up with some pretty profound like tidbits about yourself. So I don’t know if I have, I don’t think I have anything else here. Anything you wanna add?
[Ben:]
No, no. I think there are certain things we can probably take away from the way that the military kind of molds people and shapes people. I think something that I was thinking about at the start was the fact that a lot of the cadets or the recruits are younger individuals, maybe right out of high school.
So maybe they’re a little bit more malleable, whereas people who are a little bit later in life, stuck in their ways a little bit more, maybe some of the stuff isn’t as applicable or it’s harder to get people to change when they’ve ingrained kind of these habits over time. So that might kind of just be a caveat in understanding that it might take some people a little bit more time to adopt certain habits, but that’s sometimes not the case. And it is, like you said, very individual.
[Dani:]
You bring up a really good point. One of the things that they specifically are trying to do, especially with putting people in really uncomfortable situations and really intense attention to detail standards and immediate correction, is basically they’re trying to get a group of people to follow orders without hesitation. Like, don’t think, just do what I say.
And again, I think on a battlefield where one person is sort of orchestrating everything that’s going on, that I assume it has to be, it has got to be a lifesaving thing to not even think, just do as soon as somebody says it. I don’t think that’s a really smart thing to do in real life. I think you need to be a little bit more discerning who you might listen to right away and do what they say without hesitation.
I think some people could probably stand to listen to a few fewer people and do what they say, because some people are trying to listen and do what everybody says and then they’re not going to get anywhere.
[Ben:]
Just listen to us and just do what we say. That’s the solution.
[Dani:]
It’s funny, because if they listened to each one of us, we’d probably all say slightly different things too, which is kind of funny. But anyway, I hope you guys liked this episode. Maybe sometime in the future, maybe we will have Corinne on.
Corinne doesn’t even have his own podcast, I don’t think, but he’s been on a lot of them. But he’s a good friend of ours, also a vegan coach who has a very different style in every way, I would say, than we do. Very reflective of his military time, I would assume.
And, but yeah, Giacomo is constantly just in awe of how Corinne is able to do all the things that he’s able to do. And it is very admirable to see. I don’t think I have that level in me, but that’s okay, because I have way more than I used to.
And hopefully some of the tips on here will help you guys have more than you used to too. If you are looking for any kind of one-on-one training, we have links in the show notes and in the description if you’re watching this on YouTube, on how to apply for one-on-one coaching. We have some spots available with Ben, with Sawyer, with Alice.
So definitely check that out. You can follow Ben on Instagram at- Ben A.
[Ben:]
Mitchell.
[Dani:]
There it is, I was gonna say it wrong again. And mine’s Vegan Proteins, Giacomo’s is Muscles by Brussels. We are on YouTube if you’re watching this here, duh, but we now have two channels.
The podcast is on Muscles by Brussels channel and vegan proteins like our cooking and meal prep and things like that are gonna be on the main channel. So if you’re not subscribed to the new channel, go ahead and do that, because that’s where all the podcasts are gonna be. And a lot of people are discovering some of the old podcasts, which is pretty cool because I just re-uploaded them all.
So that’s it, that’s all I’ve got. If you’ve got any questions, let us know. Shoot us an email, coach at Vegan Proteins and you’ll hear back from one of us.
My name is Dani.
[Ben:]
I’m Ben.
[Dani:]
And we’ll talk to you soon.
[Ben:]
Bye everyone.
[Dani:]
Bye. All right. That was pretty good.
Cool. I like that. Yeah, that was good.
